Normal voltage drop on 12V in different run modes?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by pasadena_commut, Mar 29, 2025.

  1. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    Our 2007 had new tires put on and yesterday I went to check the inflation, which was of course not quite what the door sticker said. After setting them to exactly those values I went in to do the TPMS reset, and used IG-ON but not READY, ie, two pushes of the power button but not foot on brake. The cabin fan was off. The little voltmeter plugged in under the glove box showed 11.80V. That seemed pretty low. Took it for a drive, and the voltmeter was at 14.20 for a long time (normally it falls to 14.10 in just a few seconds), but after a while it did arrive at 14.10 and stayed there. After the car was in READY for over an hour it was parked and the hood was left unlatched last night. This morning measured these values (all in volts):

    At jump point: 12.60 (~80% SOC)
    Plugin Voltmeter: Unlock, open passenger door, enter: 12.28
    Plugin Voltmeter: Fob in dash, press power button twice (IG-ON): 11.80
    Power off, wait 5 minutes:
    Plugin Voltmeter: Fob still in dash, press power button once (ACC): 12.40

    I have not yet run the HF battery tester on it. For some reason that only works right when attached directly to the battery.

    Anyway, these 12V batteries are puny, but are voltage drops this large normal? I'm pretty sure I have used the voltage checker in ACC before and seen values >12.40, but I need to go dig through my notes to confirm it.
     
    #1 pasadena_commut, Mar 29, 2025
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2025
  2. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Yes. It is normal to lose some capacity as the 12v battery ages but yours is fine. With Ig On you are drawing a fair amount of power without the hybrid system charging the battery or running the loads. When you go to Ready the "inverter converter" takes hv battery power and runs the loads at a "12v" battery voltage appropriate for the state of charge of that battery. The 12v battery is small and should not be kept in Accessory or Ig On for very long. Some maintenance procedures needing Ig On for a longer period require an external 12v (usually 13.5v) to maintain the loads without killing the small battery in the middle of the procedure.

    A maintenance charger is not needed.
     
    #2 rjparker, Mar 29, 2025
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2025
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Were the pressures slgithly high. Maybe the tire shop got it right, and they warmed up on the drive home?
    If it's not been touched since last being set with correct pressures (possibly way back when, at the factory), the the pressure value used by TPMS was probably fine as-is.

    Instead of all those volt-checking shenagins, look into the new generation of electronic load-testers?
     
  4. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    The tire pressures were not so much wrong as strange. They were all between 33 and 35, but the highest value was on a rear tire and the lowest on a front tire. The car had sat overnight before I checked the pressures. A couple of weeks ago the same shop did the tires on our other car, and I was there to watch for that one, and at least in that case they aired it up to final pressures when the wheels were back on the car.

    Found this page

    Toyota Prius: How to Check the 12v Auxiliary Battery Health - PriusDIY.com

    and at (5) they give some voltages for ACC and IG-ON modes. Summary from "elearnaid" (some company, doesn't seem to be a Priuschat user, don't go to elearnaid.com, it tries to download software) quoted on that link:

    ACC: 11.9-12.6v as normal.
    IG-ON: 12V (ish), less if headlights or fans are on, replace battery if <10.2V.

    So mine was in range for ACC at 12.40, and it was known it wasn't at full SOC, so less than 12.6V makes sense. The description for IG-ON is too shot on details of load conditions to really be useful, but 11.80 is certainly not <10.2V.

    I think the reason the car sat at 14.20 for so long after coming back from the tire shop is that they had it in IG-ON for a while while setting up TPMS, and maybe also while doing the alignment. After charging it up for an hour it was back to its original behavior of settling at 14.10 volts in READY. Supposedly a battery in really good shape sits at 13.something volts instead, since the inverter isn't trying so hard to charge it.

    I do have an electronic battery tester. Don't trust it much though. Among other things, if a test is done at the jump point it will fail but if it is just moved over and plugged directly onto the battery posts it will pass.
     
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  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah those testers typically HAVE to be directly on posts. I’ll sometimes get away with connecting to the clamps at the post, but at the jump point and ground it gives displays error.

    that’s with my Solar BA5.
     
  6. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    Harbor Freight Viking 12V Digital Battery and System Tester
    (HF part number 58759)

    It doesn't give a test error per se, the test runs to completion, and then it says the battery is bad.

    I wager 95% that the problem is inductance, almost entirely on the long heavy wire between the jump point and the battery. I get the impression that these little testers use high frequency signals to somehow emulate a real load, and high frequency signal transmission is reduced by series inductance. The ground path might play some small role too, but that is through a very complex and large surface, which isn't going to make much of a magnetic field when the current passes through it. I would also wager a 4% bet on multiple paths with slightly different delays being present in that ground return, which would also play havoc with a high frequency signal. The remaining1% would be on gremlins.
     
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Manual for mine says it must be directly connected to posts. Also, I seem to recall the technical name for these is "inductance tester". You don't see the expression, at least not that I can recall, in specific models/makes. But that's the generic description. That's all I got, lol.
     
  8. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Some are conductance testers.

    All load testers apply a large load and measure rate of voltage drop to determine battery health. The electronic versions do it quickly and don't need the old school high power resistive load. They extrapolate longer durations of high load. With a long 6mm cable from the jump point to the battery, extra voltage drop throws off the load test calculation.
     
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