... the kindler-gentler traffic ticket revenue program ~

I'm not a democrat, but I will say that when I got my only speeding ticket (for going 49 mph in a 40 mph school zone), for $180 and that was all the money I had that month. It was during the 2008 economic crisis and I had been without a job for 3 months searching for another. I had to go without food for that entire month. It was brutal.

For that reason I will never speed ever again. I don't care if I have a line so long there's no end to it behind me impatiently wanting me to go 10 mph faster, I won't go 1 mph over the speed limit, ever.

Meanwhile, where I live, there is also a very rich community nearby. You can always tell who's from there because they drive as if speed limits didn't exist. Of course for them a speeding ticket is just pocket change.

It doesn't matter what you do with speeding fines, they will always be unfair. If they're the same price for everyone, then it's a larger percentage of the poor's income. If it's based on income, then the rich will get fined more than the poor.

Again, like I say, I just won't speed ever. I don't care if you think that's unsafe, and I don't care if you're behind me either. 5mph under won't get me a ticket.

 

i don't speed either, and wish they would increase the fines. there's no traffic enforcement around here anymore, except lil ol' me

 

But by how much? The nearby ski town is littered with 5 million dollar homes and up. What kind of fines would deter them from speeding?

 

Yes, some countries, like Finland, determine the fine based on income. This is an example of a guy in Finland who was ticketed for 65 in a 50. His annual income was 6.5 mil. It would be equivalent to a 65k annual earnings guy being fined $540. Although I don't account for currency conversions, the numbers seems like they would be a good incentive to not drive like a clown, if we just assumed USD.

they pinged a federal taxpayer database to determine his income, consulted their handbook, and arrived at the amount that he was required to pay: €54,000. Finland’s system for calculating fines is relatively simple: It starts with an estimate of the amount of spending money a Finn has for one day, and then divides that by two—the resulting number is considered a reasonable amount of spending money to deprive the offender of. Then, based on the severity of the crime, the system has rules for how many days the offender must go without that money. Going about 15 mph over the speed limit gets you a multiplier of 12 days, and going 25 mph over carries a 22-day multiplier.

 

Any system is far from fair.
So a beggar can violate for free?

 

It's not the fines.
That's just a money grab....

POINTS lead to higher insurance payments and in some cases, a suspended license.

Finland also requires drivers to be adults (18+) show proficiency at.....driving, they have speed AND intersection cameras, and they probably do not regularly have drivers with 4 or more drink driving convictions on their records.

Which means?
You "probably" have safer roads than we do here in the 'land of the free.'
I say 'probably' because I haven't had the pleasure of driving in Finland

I'm a fairly liberal conservative, or a fairly conservative liberal.
Depends on whom you ask.

HOWEVER (comma!!!)
In a fair and just world?

There would be a LOT MORE intersections with intersection cameras, and many many MANY more speed cameras, and approximately zero repeat drink drivers.
Maybe put the money towards the national debt....

Believe it or not, we actually have people in the US who are not habitual traffic scofflaws that are AGAINST traffic enforcement with cameras and lasers.

Until then?
We are what we are.
'free....'

 

Like I said, any system will never be fair to everyone.

On the other hand, how does a beggar afford to drive and get a speeding ticket?

My question is, if the goal is to get people to obey the speed limit, then what, if anything, will get people to obey the speed limit? This is another reason why I find driving to be a joke. People don't care about the safety of other people. They drive like maniacs. It's obvious that traffic violation fines to completely solve the problem, but if they don't then what would?

Sometimes I wonder if they cut all funding to road repair and let the roads turn into pot-hole filled dirt roads then maybe people would stop speeding. Maybe that would be a win-win for everyone. Of course then I'd be out of a job, as I work in road and bridge repair.

 

Well, the rich still don't see concerned about it. Some are lawyers who know the system, or can afford those lawyers to keep points on their licenses. I'm sure that insurance premiums are also pocket change for some of these people.

I know one guy who got into a little paint scrape with a rich exlawyer who drives a newish Toyota Land Cruiser. Even though it looks to me like the exlawyer was at fault, and the other guy has insurance, the exlawyer is suing him $15,000 for "car repairs." The case just keeps going on and on.

 

Good idea!!!!
But then.....I do not own a 'car.'
I drive GMCs.

Our city's diggers and fillers decided to 'fix' a drainage issue by creating a fairly impressive culvert in the middle of the road leading into my neighborhood - creating a very effective 'speed dip.'
There were howls of protest in the neighborhood, but I was tempted to bribe the mayor (who lives in the neighborhood) to install more of them.

 

You made me think of something. The rich, for the most part, drive big SUVs and pickups. When it snows, if there is no road crew, there would also be no snow removal either.

I guess I and the poor like me would be the ones in a pickle as I drive a 2wd Toyota hybrid sedan.

 

I suppose we could completely go off the rails and anyone caught speeding (any amount) or driving recklessly (a bit of gray area here) gets a bullet in the noggin, or maybe just the car crushed. I'm sure after a handful of examples are made, people would wise up.

 

Another problem is emerging. If no one breaks the rules, there will be no fines, funding will stop, and the roads will again turn into impassable paths.
We need to encourage breaking.

 

Road repair funds don't come from speeding fines.

 

Poorer people always have poorer options.

Where I live, poor people drive what's cheap - and this does NOT include Toyota hybrids!
Around here it's old trucks, cast-away CUVs and minivans, and the odd RWD full sized sedan.

We do get snow on occasion but in amounts where a FWD vehicle would be a value add.
We use plows for fields - not roads.

I sorta think that this "might" be a "false binary."
It's also known as an "either/or fallacy"

You know where people do NOT get very many speeding tickets around here?
Road Construction sites and School Zones.
That's because they're heavily patrolled, and the fines are doubled.
People LEARN to SLOW DOWN (or stop, at the crosswalks) either the easy way.....or the hard way.
Hard lessons usually make for lasting memories.
There's usually zero tolerance, and the fines begin at 1mph above the limit.
This MOSTLY results in a traffic backup that forces compliance, but just about every week I see people learning new life lessons.....the hard way.
Like I said earlier, it's not the fines that will change the behavior - but high insurance premiums and suspended licenses generally work.

In every society there will always be some rich kid, sports athlete, media 'influencer' etc...that gets away with 's'......until they don't.

Darwin will ALWAYS harvest those who are foolish or just plain unlucky - and NO.

...it's not 'fair.'
Life never is.

 

I'm actually Pro cameras; People just knowing there are cameras will actually slow down, not ignore traffic signs and not think of them as an option.
I've been in countries where traffic signs and signals are simply a suggestion.
Countries with lots of cameras coupled with enforcement seem to be more orderly and safer to cross the street.

This may be because I was almost hit twice in the last 6 months, by people blowing through a red traffic lamp. I know there was red signal on their side, because other cars in other lanes stopped.

This is the reason I've installed drive cameras. It's unfortunate that is has come to this. but the last two accidents I was involved in, was the fault of uninsured motorist. I may be just getting old and crusty but I'm noticing a lot more expired license plates on cars now-a-days. What are the chances they're insuring those rust buckets????

 

Most smart people are if they drive very much.

I drove to work today in one such nation.

 

You got me there!!!!

 

The amount of people who don’t want a speeding ticket is significant.
You can’t completely eliminate crime, but if enough drivers go somewhere close to the limit, others are forced to slow down because they are behind them.
At least we might get back to something pre Covid.
It is not a burden on poor people to obey the law

 

I do not believe in this saying anymore. Poorer people do not always have poorer options. They do only when people can make money off of selling things at rock bottom prices. If they can sell them for more or it no longer makes sense to sell them then the poor lose their poorer options.

Have you done a total cost of ownership of such vehicles? I've bought a Toyota hybrid in as little as $300. It still runs, although not very well.

Bigger and older vehicles use more fuel. I happily pay only a $200 per month in my +40 mpg Toyota hybrid. If I had an old pickup that gets 10 mpg I'd be spending $800 per month. Sorry I don't see that as a poor man's option.