ATF fluid changes ARE Required.

Ya beat me to the punch
Early gen1 had failures, but it's unknown if it was the ATF or early manufacturing practices. There was electronic components built into regular hydromatic transmissions, back then too.

Bottom-line; We know Toyota-WS works and people that don't change their ATF also get failures few and far in-between. If your changing your ATF; your ahead of the game. Why introduce an unknown into the equation? That's my thinking.....

Your car; your dime.....

FWIW: Most of the people stating that Toyota ATF-WS is garbage are trying to push full synthetic ATF. If your going to change your ATF on a regular basis; what does it matter? We KNOW Toyota ATF-WS works; even when people don't change it.......

 

I have some questions and would love to hear your opinions:

1. As I've only done 30k miles since the last replacement, but it's been 6 years, am I due for another change? I keep reading that 60k miles is suitable for a second change, but does time factor in the same way as with engine oil changes (whichever comes first)? I assume yes.
2. Apart from Toyota ATF, what alternative fluid would you recommend?
3. Can I even do this properly with only 2 jack stands and a 2-tonne floor jack?
4. Lastly, what maintenance tasks would you suggest at 106k miles to keep everything running smoothly?

Any advice is greatly appreciated. Cheers!

#1: I would do it....my rule is ATF gets changed every 50,000 miles are 5-years. (Almost all our cars just hit 5-years with much less mileage)

#2: Personally, I just go buy Toyota ATF and always has for military discount or bulk-purchase options since we own quite a few Yotas these days.)

#3: Well, you DO have to get the car level to refill but I've seen pictures of folks lifting the entire front on that center lift-point. (Maybe save up for a few more jack stands?) I bought a QuickJack system a few years ago and saves a TON of time working on car...just squeeze them together, drive over it, pull them out the vehicle and put either thick rubber pads or the steel lifts on it to lift up the car on the lift points.

#4: Besides all fluids changed, I replace spark plugs and clean the throttle body and, if the car has a radiator cap, go ahead and buy a new one at Toyota. (They tend to get rusty inside on the spring if you look at them.) On older cars, I do remove the MAF sensor and use MAFS cleaner on them. (I've heard newer car sensors are extra-sensitive and we shouldn't do that unless there's an issue.)

Good job doing maintenance....way too many think running it through a car wash is better than an oil change!

 

^ Who are you quoting?
(didn't realize at first, thought it was all you)

 

I don't know how many of those electronic components operated at 500 volts (gen 2) or 650 volts (gen 3).

 

+1^ that's why it's so important to not have your electric wire insulation de-laminate or break-down. I've been inside those early model hydromatic transmissions with sensors and solenoids submerged in ATF. Lots of wire insulation breaking off, Mylar separation and that was only operating on 12V current. We replaced all that on rebuilds, because they fall apart whenever you touched them.

 

I used the Valvoline Hybrid ATF from Walmart... It has Copper Care technology or something like that, so it's supposed to be good for those motor windings. Seemed like an upgrade over the plain Toyota stuff, and it's full synthetic, too. Plus, easy to find and cheaper than genuine Toyota.

Really, it seems like transaxle problems are so rare that you could use Maxlife or Supertech or whatever.

 

I get it—it can be maddening dealing with someone who seems dismissive, sarcastic, or overly loyal to a brand without considering other perspectives. Fanboy tendencies can sometimes make it hard for people to see beyond their biases. At the end of the day, you’ve done your research, presented facts, and shared valuable insights. That’s what matters. Let the data speak for itself—those who are open-minded will appreciate your input. Keep standing your ground, and don’t let the noise get to you!

 

Like this:

Pots and kettles in the same breath? Anyway, deep breath...

Toyota says this, in the Owner's Manuals, seems pretty unequivocal. And this is the ONLY fluid that get insistent about:



I'm neither a mechanical engineer nor a chemist. I'm definitely NOT a fan boy, bit of a zealot regarding the EGR fiasco, for example. I put down over 30 grand CDN for our 2010, and don't relish a transaxle replacement. I may be overly cautious, but this is one fluid I wouldn't want to roll the dice on. And for what benefit, lol.

 

Do not forget that in addition to the genuine ATF, the manuals prescribed to use:

• Toyota approved engine oil;
• Genuine Toyota Super Long Life Coolant only;
• Genuine Toyota Power Steering Fluid;
• Genuine Toyota Brake Fluid;
• Genuine compressor oil ND-Oil... As well as genuine Toyota parts, which are to be bought from authorized Toyota dealers only.

Thanks for sharing your perspective, Mendel! I can understand your cautious approach to fluid selection, especially considering your investment in your 2010 and your goal to avoid any transaxle issues. My stance isn’t about rolling the dice with untested products—I’m focused on alternatives that meet or exceed Toyota WS specifications, as my research has shown there are fluids out there that offer better thermal resistance and long-term performance.

As for 'genuine' fluids, it’s worth noting that Toyota doesn’t manufacture the fluids themselves—they source them. Back in the '90s, before 'genuine fluids' became a marketing staple, countless Toyotas were operated on locally available oils without breakdowns, proving these vehicles were adaptable to quality alternatives. That’s what I aim for—fluids that not only protect but also deliver value.

Ultimately, it’s about finding what works best for the vehicle without overpaying for branding alone. Your concerns are valid, and I appreciate hearing your take!

 

I have a 2008 Prius with 282k miles. No Transmission fluid change since 100k miles. I have heard some advice to NOT do a fluid change on high mileage transmissions. Car works file.

What is your suggestion: Do a fluid change or leave as is?

 

Not sure of you mean with "prescribed to use", but assuming the implication is "use this and nothing but"? And the argument being that the insistence with the ATF-WS is just one more example. Going through your bullet list:

Toyota approved engine oil;

^ They promote their motor oil (aka "engine oil' in Toyota parlance), but do not shut the door on alternates:



^ Honda and Mazda (happen to have some of their Owner's Manuals) for comparison do similar, irecommend theirs product but don't insist you use it, give a spec:

Honda:



Mazda:



Genuine Toyota Super Long Life Coolant only;

They do push theirs, but again don't say to use it exclusively, give a spec:



^ I'm not bright enough in chemistry, use the house brand, but they're not insisting you must.

Genuine Toyota Power Steering Fluid;

No clue, not applicable to Prius at any rate

Genuine Toyota Brake Fluid;:



^ This is ALL they say, no mention of house brand, though they do offer one, and I've used that, seemed prudent since that's likely what was used at the factory, and I don't like to gamble on additive conflicts or whatever.

Genuine compressor oil ND-Oil:

I found one instance of "compressor" in my North American 2010 Prius Owner's Manual, in the index, no mention of the oil. In my bootleg Repair Manual for 3rd gen Prius, I found:


^ That seems pretty generic to me, though again I'm clueless. Is it just a spec? This is something I wouldn't touch with a barge-pole anyway; I've done one recharge, let the dealership handle it.

As far as I can see, the only time they get adamant is with the transaxle fluid. It's commonly advocated to do an early change of the transaxle fluid. I subscribe to that, might have even started it. Can you imagine if you did have an issue, a transaxle failure, still within warranty, but the dealership opted to do an analysis of the fluid, and...

 

I would definitely do another, probably good for the rest of it's life. There's a link in my signature for transaxle fluid change. (On a phone turn it landscape to see signatures.).

Any more info you care to share, considering the high miles? Still on original head gasket? Brake Booster? Hybrid battery? That's getting up there.

^ ah, a gen 2, never mind.

 

Super. Thank you for the guidance. I want to keep the 2008 running past 280k miles!

 

I agree, Erik! My daughter bought a great used 2012 Sienna a few years ago with 150,000 and the transmission had never been serviced. I wrestled around with just leaving it but then decided to go ahead and do a drain and fill...and that stuff was as black as night! But it's now closing in at 200,000 and haven't had any issues. Nothing like the bullet-proof transmissions Toyota has. (Don't talk to Nissan owners about transmission issues....oy vey)

 

Thank you for the insight! I will have to keep a sample of what it looks like after 282k miles!

 

The analysis is of how the fluid has degraded, what it's picked up? I can't see the lab opining on compatibility though, say with high voltage windings.