What's the newest data analysis and results? --- EGR clean prevents HG gasket or is it inevitable

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by Eun yushiro, Jun 20, 2025.

  1. Eun yushiro

    Eun yushiro Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    3
    2
    0
    Location:
    Van Nuys, CA
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Our 3g's have hit high mileages now and even more sample sets of data...
    Does the EGR + intake manifold clean actually help prevent Head Gasket Failure - or are those that saying it's Inevitable the HG fail --> Correct?

    Wondering what the conclusion is in your opinions given that we've had much more miles put on our cars

    Why is this important. Can help others know if they should just preventatively change the head gasket now, as well as do the EGR clean, or really just do the EGR clean and be done with it




    My prius is at 128k miles
    Just got the EGR valve and cooler out -- Took me 1 month with the car sitting in the garage. I'm learning how to work on cars (i'm a hospital therapist by trade) -- none of this is easy and takes me 10x longer to do

    Please do share the data. I'm wondering if I should just learn how to change the head gasket now to Fel Pro but it seems way over my head and I don't have the time to just sit hours in the garage. Have a beautiful young baby daughter I spend all my time with and would prefer it that way
     

    Attached Files:

    bisco likes this.
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    112,227
    51,058
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    unfortunately, there is no data. data requires controlled testing and record keeping, of which we have none.
    what we do have is a lot of experiences reported, good and bad. we do know that not every head gasket blows, if you put some mileage/time on the answer.

    toyota says it is badly designed water pump speed software, for which they offer an update (in europe only?)
    many guesses here include egr and related assemblies, defective head gaskets, 10k oil changes, infrequent coolant changes or even ph testing, poorly designed pistons and rings, and etc.
    how to make sense of all that?
     
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    58,842
    40,509
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    A lot of the naysayers give examples, owners that clean their EGR when the odometer's into six digits, and maybe even exhibiting head gasket failure symtoms, such as cold-start shakes, losing coolant. The concept of "interference engines" comes to mind, basically something advantagious is applied to an engine, with the caveat that something else is implemented, to allow that application to work safely.

    With 3rd gen Prius, better mpg (a tenth or two of a mpg) was achieved, by running it leaner, and to keep the engine from overheating the EGR system was added. If Toyota had bothered to run a few test cars for 200k miles, we likely wouldn't be where we are.

    Same could be said for the low-friction piston rings. Anyway:

    ^ A lot of times the naysayers will say "I cleaned the EGR, and head gasket still blew". When asked at what miles, it's typically around, well, your miles. Bottom line, just from reports here, my take is it needs every 50k miles, or less. Any more than that, the EGR is compromised, has reduced flow, unbalanced flow and/or overheated flow. Likely all three.

    Belated cleaning is still good to do, but definitely don't get complacent. Our third gen YouTube guru @NutzAboutBolts cleaned his EGR and intake manifold around 120k, and is now having head gasket failure, around 180~190.

    See the top two links in my signature*, also see this workflow summary (just for the EGR side of it, not the intake manifold).

    * on a phone turn it landscape to see signatures

    Not sure if it's mentioned in any of the above links, but exclusively for the EGR cooler, I'd recommend a lye solution soak, for fast/thorough cleaning. It's stainless steel, impervious to lye, and really needs something strong, due to the internal radiator labyrinth. For everything else brake cleaner, brushes and rags will do. You definitely DO NOT want to or need to use lye on anything else. It will react with aluminum, non stainless steel.
     
  4. Eun yushiro

    Eun yushiro Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    3
    2
    0
    Location:
    Van Nuys, CA
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Have watched your posts for many years, thanks for your helpful comments.

    I'm about to do the strut/spring with KYB's, and the sway bar end links (oem)
    Bought LBJoints but don't want to deal with it this time around

    I'm doing spark plugs (original PIP size was 15mm, new updated item# was 14mm)



    Looks like the data that I've gathered from here, reddit, and FB prius groups is that the HG tends to fail at a high rate at 180-200k miles.
    That'll be 5-6 years for me, and I'll revisit the headgasket job in doing it myself
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    58,842
    40,509
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    My unsubstatiated hunch: with regular/complete cleaning of the EGR system, at least every 50k miles of the car's life, the head gasket is much less prone to fail.
     
  6. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    26,297
    17,227
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    That misstates what it's for, though. The EGR is primarily there to reduce NOx emissions, by reducing peak instantaneous temperatures reached in a very brief part of the stroke. NOx is only formed when the instantaneous peak goes above a certain temperature.

    Over the several decades of cars having EGR, the manufacturers did figure out how to get MPG improvements from it also, by tricks like using it to reduce power without closing the throttle as far, so less work is done pumping air across the throttle. That made it no longer a necessary-evil tradeoff of MPG for antipollution, and instead a win for both (a big and important antipollution win, and a more modest MPG win).

    It's important to think separately about "instantaneous peak temperatures" and "overheating". Overheating is a macro phenomenon, what temperature the engine materials and coolant reach. The cooling system is what controls that, and it takes in stride bigger changes in heat production when you accelerate, coast, or go from downhill to uphill, than any difference the EGR makes.

    If it were not so, you'd be able to use the coolant temperature reading to know when your EGR needed cleaning.
     
    Mendel Leisk and Brian1954 like this.
  7. wheelsup

    wheelsup Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    96
    17
    0
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    I'm under the impression that it's the thermal cycling that is causing the HG issues. EGR blockage will increase crankcase pressure but typically that will result in oil being blown out of seals like the RMS or similar.

    You can test for this condition by putting a glove over the oil fill hole and running the engine.

    If concerned you could always remove the dipstick and run a heater line tube off it and route it under the vehicle to vent excess crankcase pressure. Just remove prior to your annual inspection :D.

    Also, replacement of coolant in regular intervals should reduce its acidity and its ability to attack the factory HG.

    On our vehicle specifically, early replacement of the engine coolant pump (electric) is also needed as I do not believe we have any sort of CEL or light if it fails.

    I read a writeup from someone who worked at an independent Toyota shop that stated that 90% of the HG failures in their shop were accompanied by the coolant pump failure.
     
    #7 wheelsup, Jun 26, 2025 at 8:14 PM
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2025 at 8:22 PM
    bisco likes this.
  8. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    7,162
    3,747
    0
    Location:
    Florida
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    It's likely a combination of things. And the pcv valve takes care of the pressure.....
     
  9. wheelsup

    wheelsup Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    96
    17
    0
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    You'd hope. I have no idea where it is on the Prius but in an older vehicle, the PCV would clog and blow the RMS.
     
  10. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    7,162
    3,747
    0
    Location:
    Florida
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Underneath the instake manifold, on the front of the engine block.


     
    wheelsup likes this.
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    58,842
    40,509
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    58,842
    40,509
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    EGR is the one potential culprit that seems to have a direct corellation to the regular-as-clockwork failures at cylinder one: the intake manifold's EGR capillary passage at cylinder is usually the first to fully clog. Behind the scenes Toyota maybe had a similar inkling, they revised the way those passages split off the intake manifold's main EGR gallery.
     
  13. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    26,297
    17,227
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    They did that for the snorts-condensed-water-after-cold-soak issue though.
     
    Brian1954 likes this.