Lithium or sodium for replacement

If there was a longer likely market period for these replacement batteries, I'd be tempted to build an LTO version that would last a number of replacement vehicles .... but they'd all have to be the same model ..... gen 2 is getting a tad long in the tooth, gen 3 was a bit of a lemon, was the Gen 4 popular enough and reliable enough to be worth the effort of designing a battery that would last and genuinely improve fuel economy and performance?

To build one for the gen 2, test and prove any claims, with such a limited market, the cost per unit would be prohibitive ...... but maybe as a longer range unit for Gen 2 transplants into other vehicles ......

T1 Terry

 

It's likely worth it. People are still driving the first generation Prius...
Some batteries will last longer than others. Only time will tell.
I think eventually, each version will get less popular, and the need for the batteries will lessen.
As parts for other car have.

There are more and more hybrid and electric vehicles, so the cost will eventually go down.

 

You have to use in order to test anything.

I use my V3 GT in a climate that is very hot most of the year and in the winter gets below freezing.

I have zero issues during this use and it can be called a test and passed.

Me driving around and using my Prius with the OEM power inverter is a test and currently the testing is in year 15 and I am testing software version J0V

 

I bash on people and take their posts for quotes, and I’m always right!!!

 

Keep in mind theses are the People who bought the lithium and soother, now they got suckered into the salt pack hook line and sinker. You can’t invest into something and be in denial. It’s like buying a company stock and talking it up when the stock price has been trending down. Now they’re just the water carrier!

 

And LTO was built for the turd gen before. On paper it was going to work but it failed. I’m waiting for solid state in 2027. Think Mendel or bisco said that Toyota’s fantasy!

 

Can you supply a link to the LTO battery failure? I was building one for my Prius, but some a*hole burnt our workshop to the ground and that battery pack, the other 50 something cells , the i Tech back seat and rear interior panels .... the Prius would have been in there as well, but I needed the space to put my motorhome in so I could change the oil .... so that got burnt to ground as well .....

At least it proved LTO cells don't burn, they lost all there blue plastic wrappers, popped their burst plugs and some of the outside aluminium of the cyl cell melted, but that was it.

T1 Terry

 

I know, so why do you keep doing it?

 

Hey

 

you!

 

So, sodium ion would suffer from the rapid recharge on regen, the discharge wouldn't be a problem. The way around that might be to use enough cells to handle the voltage spikes from regen. 6 cells x Sodium ion cells would have a full voltage of 4.0v to 4.3v, depending on the chemical make up. The nom. voltage helps to determine this, hard carbon have a nom.3.1v, Prussian Blue have a nom. 3.25v, the higher nom. voltage, the high max charge voltage.

Using the common solid carbon as a base, 6 cells would give a max voltage of 24v, so a head clearance of 6v over normal peak NiMh voltage.

Then, the 6 cells need to be balanced and that evened out across the whole 6 x 14 cells = 84 cells.

Gotta a job I have to go and sort on a house boat, be back this afternoon

T1 Terry

 

Hi!

 

Ho!

 

I've already done the "off to work we go" but that just got the wife thinking of jobs I needed to do on the motorhome.
The latest was to reverse engineer a set of auto folding steps to make a Jenga game instead

Managed to get them tangled up with a tree when they didn't auto retract .... some serious straightening and twisted shaft repair required .... but as soon as that is complete, I'll get back to the topic I was in the process of putting forward ideas

T1 Terry

 

This thread had been officially hi jacked.

 

Did you want an award or something, or do you have something useful to add?

T1 Terry

 

Back to where I was up to:

192V Battery Balancer | ZHCSolar

These work well and will balance 16 cells at a time. 6 units, 2 cells overlapped between units will achieve balancing from one end of the pack to the other.

Another option is LTO cells. This would require 7 cells per 2 modules for a total of 98cells. the same balancing units but 7 required with the 2 cell over lap.

In both cases, the original Prius BMS (battery computer) wiring can be used for each 7 cells in series.

The Sodium ion would have a greater overhead to cater for voltage run away, the greater the difference between the high cell and the low cell, the greater capacity transfer, they claim up to 10 amps, but I'm guessing that is at the 12v equalising voltage, where one battery might be 16v and another 10v. With an anticipated max cell voltage differential of around 3v, I'd expect 3 amps being shifted .... but keep in mind, this will result in at least twice the balancing effort the resistor method can achieve ..... this method not only brings the high cells down, but it lifts the low cells up in capacity and therefore voltage ......

The advantage of the LTO cell option, a chemistry that can handle much higher current movement and known for a very long cycle life. A 15Ah LTO cell could deliver and accept, 150 amps, well above the capability of the Prius regen for any length of time ...... I have seen 180 amps under heavy braking, but that was only for seconds, that would be considered pulse charging and these cells can handle a lot more than 10C in the pulse type charging time frame

T1 Terry

 

I'm not sure that SSBs will be 'quite' ready in '27..... or '28.....or.....

 

They're always attacking......

Sodium all the way...

 

I think the solid state battery was a great idea in the lab, didn't scale up or provide the expected cycle life .... while they were trying to get the dead horse to stand up and gallop, the other chemistries and build types have advanced to the stage the Solid State Battery will never catch up .....
LFP batteries with a 12 yr cycle life, the new CATL combined LFP and Na+ chemistry battery pack will be the next big thing as far as range and cycle life .... with ultra fast charging thrown in ........
500mile range and 30 min recharge is more than enough for the average driver, 1,000mile range and 11 min charging is for endurance race cars

T1 Terry