How long does the LT Fuel Trim take to mean something?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by pasadena_commut, Dec 4, 2025 at 12:38 AM.

  1. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    I changed the 12V battery (very) recently. Today while playing with a new Autel AP200 I noticed that the long term fuel trim was reading -0.8%. Figured that the car probably set it to 0.0% when the old battery went out and the new one went in. So right now this figure only represents about 100 miles of driving. How many miles might it take for that value to become meaningful? Or put another way, assuming the 12V hasn't been messed with, how many miles are reflected in that value? I'm guessing that the information from 20k miles earlier has been flushed out and only that from the last couple of hundred or thousand miles remain. (Because if there is a problem now one wouldn't want to wash it out with data from long before the problem arose.)

    I don't have any reason to think there is an issue which should be causing problems that would be reflected in the LT fuel trim, I'm just curious how long it takes to be a useful value.

    The manual indicates that a pretty large range of fuel trim values are acceptable. For a 2nd generation in good health is that wide a range of long term fuel trims actually observed, or are they typically a lot closer to 0? I recall (imperfectly) a Scotty Kilmer video where he was looking at some Toyota or Lexus and noted that the LT fuel trim on that car was really small, like less than 1% one way or the other, and my impression was that was pretty much what he expected to see.
     
  2. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    When the engineers design the ICE, they measure all the sensor inputs (everything except the Air-Fuel or O2 sensors) while figuring out how much fuel injected plus what ignition timing it takes to achieve their power and emissions goals.

    That data is compiled into fuel (and ignition) "maps" that are programmed into the ecu. These can look like grid charts, RPM on one axis and load on the other. So there are values - millisec of injector on time (and x° ignition timing) for the entire expected range of RPM x load. This is the base fuel injector "on time" chart.

    1000 RPM in park is different from 25 mph cruising and from "foot to the floor" on the highway. The values from the ecu maps are adjusted for other sensor inputs such as temperatures, APP (driver's "intent" - desired RPM) etc before the injectors and coils are triggered.

    The Lambda (A-F and O2) sensors are part of the feedback loop that's designed to keep the ICE operating at the intended Air-Fuel ratio.

    When the ecu ignores the Lambda sensor inputs, that's called "open loop" operation (such as cold start up, or decel fuel cut). When the Lambda sensors are used, that's "closed loop".

    If the AF reports that the exhaust gas mixture is too lean, the ecu makes a positive correction to increase fuel (a "plus" percent of the current injector base on time). When AF reports too rich, it's a negative correction to reduce fuel (a "minus" percent).

    Short Term fuel trim is a temporary correction that's a direct response to the AF sensor. ST's job is to keep the AF ratio centered on the programmed value (usually 14.7:1).

    If ST is "too far away" from 0 (maybe 5%?) for "too much time" (maybe a few minutes?), then Long Term fuel trim steps in to bring ST back towards 0. LT's job is to keep ST centered near 0

    LT trim is a learned correction that's stored in the ecu on its own RPM x load map. ST and LT are additive. If something causes ST to stay near +10%, LT would shift towards +10%, and ST would shift back towards 0%.

    Typical range for ST and LT is around ± 25%. 0 ± 5% is ideal. ± 10% is acceptable. ± 15% means something is off but it can compensate. Over ± 20% should be setting codes or have driveability problems.

    So LT trim isn't really indicating any significant historical data, just compensation for a given RPM x load - whenever the last time that the engine operated under those conditions. Might have been yesterday, or might have been last month. If ST changes too much, then LT will change. If ST stays near 0, then LT won't change.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  3. spdracrm3

    spdracrm3 Member

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    One drive cycle usually

    SM-G960U ?
     
  4. priumium

    priumium Member

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    There are many dymanic parameters effecting this value, such as temperature, air pressure, driving habits, AfR data and more. This is a lovely explanation:

     
    #4 priumium, Dec 4, 2025 at 11:00 AM
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2025 at 11:56 AM