Featured Mazda brings back the diesel war

.I would love a cx5 ev

 

Might be one by the time to trade in the Bolt or Camry.
https://www.autoblog.com/news/mazda-quietly-begins-testing-a-secret-new-ev-for-the-u-s
Mazda is about to launch a real electric SUV: Here's our first look

Can't wait, there's a CX-70 PHEV available now with 30 miles EV range.
2026 Mazda CX-70 Plug-in Hybrid (PHEV) 2-Row SUV | Mazda USA | Mazda USA

 

It's great that many of you here on Priuschat have found a car that works well for you. However, even though many are also quick to admit that their car choice is not for everyone, why do you often claim you also know what won't work for everyone else? Sure, there are disadvantages to diesels, but there are also advantages to them too. Sure, they pollute, but so do gassers and hybrids, and depending on various design choices, any one of them could pollute more or less than the other two. But alas, those of us who are in a world now bent on killing alternatives to a gas-powered SUV future and who'd like to see more alternatives are told, "no, get a gas SUV or stop driving." The future is grim.

 

I guess that’s why we’re on priuschat

 

My guess is that that video is pure clickbait. The diesel news is the current epa is trying to allow diesels to produce more nox and be able to run normally with no def. That is a bad sign. Diesel passenger cars peaked 9 years ago world wide. There has been growth in agricultural and truck diesels but mazda is not in that business. Mazda does sell diesel passanger vehiclees in japan and europe. I doubt either market will return to 2018 sales levels of diesels though there may be a little rebound. Emissions regulation make costs significantly higher than they used to be.

 

The market is dictating what gets produced and people are not wanting to go back to sub-20 MPG vehicles in many areas. At about 40k miles you break even on the gas you saved versus the hybrid premium. (Driving on an interstate the other day I counted 5 consecutive Teslas going in the opposite direction. And I see more people every day in other brand higher economy cars.)

An EV can be produced and sold for roughly $22k (though not currently produced in the developed economies (US, EU) and not without massive local subsidies (China)).

There are lower cost vehicles coming.

How will their manufacturers do? Only time will tell. Any current manufacturer has legacy personnel costs and any new one will have to compete in a crowded market and you'll need parts for at least 10 years so buying from the new guy is a gamble.

 

I sure don't want to go back to sub-20 MPG either. And that's kind of why I liked what diesel at least used to be. The fuel mileage was similar, if not better in that 1985 diesel I owned than in my 2013 hybrid. Of course there are a lot of other factors that one can use to justify one or the other, especially emissions. But still, I also don't see 20 mpg diesel cars as being desirable.

This is a new car buyer's mindset. That $22k car is going to be $500 or so per month. The used car buyer's mindset is different. My VW diesel cost me $600 total. That's less than 2 months of car payments on a new car.

And at nearly 200k miles and 13 years old, I'm also coming up on the point where that NiMH battery in my Toyota hybrid will need replacing. That's something that I've never needed to think about before in my previous cars. My car currently has a trade-in value of $2,300. If I put a $2,000 or more HV battery in it and then get hit and the car gets totaled, then what? Or do I just sell the car with a bad HV battery and get something else?

You see, this wasn't the experience in the diesel Golf. Now sure, modern diesels are much more expensive to repair and much less reliable. But still, as you said, the market dictates what is produced, and we used car buyers just have to go with whatever ends up on used car lots and that makes the most sense. And currently, that is not another Toyota hybrid. But, it might be a used EV??? I'm on the fence.

 

By that time, you want Level 4 ADAS more than anything, especially if you are a senior. I doubt Mazda will get there by then, but Tesla, Lucid, Mercedes–Benz etc. should get there. Ask @bwilson4web what matters most—he knows.

 

But that is also dependant on two factors: how much braking is needed by the individual and how efficient the rest of the drive train is over all. People that drive mostly highway miles don't benefit much from regenerative braking. People that are easier on the accelerator and brakes also benefit less from regenerative braking.

I could get 60 mpg (52 mpg gasoline equivalent) in my 1985 VW diesel without regenerative braking. Regenerative braking doesn't matter if you're getting 52 mpg in a new Camry hybrid or the same gasoline-equivalent fuel mileage in a diesel.

This is a completely bogus excuse when you factor in a 1985 VW diesel with a manual transmission is still rocking that same transmission 30 years and 700,000 miles later, with zero needed repairs to such transmission.

Compare that to a Toyota hybrid that WILL absolutely need a costly HV battery replacement long before those miles and years.

I agree that emissions are a greater challenge with diesels than gassers. But two things: when the emissions equipment breaks, diesels are actually cleaner than gassers (less NOx, less CO and less HC). Put a failed catalytic converter on a gasser and it will produce orders of magnitude more NOx than a diesel, even a diesel with a failed DEF and catalytic converter. That, and with enough emissions equipment, either diesels or gassers can be cleaner.

But yes, diesels are more complicated and more expensive to bring emissions down in. However, saying diesels are dirtier makes as much sense as saying EV's are dirtier. There are way too many other factors, and not stereotypes, that actually determine if that's true or not.

Not all diesel owners roll coal. And forcing coal rollers to drive EVs or hybrids isn't going to force them to care for the environment either.

 

(sigh) label this under this website has gone ballistic

 

And chances are that it (a diesel Mazda) won’t be sold in the US.

And in today’s news. I don’t know why @bwilson4web still insists on a Model 3 instead of a Model Y. Model Y has even better fuel economy.

Consumer Reports’ 2026 top 10 cars all have one important feature

 

You think of Brands like Mazda Mitsubishi Isuzu & Suzuki - they all had cars that were okay at one time in the usa. Some are gone & some are way way way down in sales. That being the case, it's not like a diesel is suddenly going to bring back good times to mazda. Ergo, it's hard to understand all the hubbub
.

 

His current Model 3 vs. a Y? Or a new Model 3 vs. a Y?

If it's his current Model 3 (2018) it may be because of depreciation. I see prices for 2018 Model 3's as low as $9,620 and not much higher than $25,000 at the top end, whereas a new Model Y starts at about $40,000.

 

No diesel or gas cars in Consumer Reports’ top ten.

 

He wants a newer used BEV, I believe. Those $10,000 BEVs could end up costing you $30,000 when they break down.

 

It seems like this should be a topic in EV and hybrid news, not Mazda brings back the diesel war.

While I get the marketing gimmick, saying a non-plug-in hybrid is not a gas car just doesn't sound right to me. To me, if it's not a gas car, then I shouldn't have to put gas in it for it to propel me around on streets and highways. Sorry for yet another little rant.