This happened yesterday, right after our sailboat race. We were sitting at the marina when two marine rescue boats arrived, two ambulances, and a Coast Guard helicopter. On the marine radio they were talking about a plane crashing into the bay. It turns out it wasn't a crash, but a float plane flipped while taxiing cross-wind. They had just landed in 20 kt winds, gusting to 25. When they made a turn to taxi, the wind got under the wing and over they went (the waves helped). The pilot, who is 80 years old, and his passenger, were both unhurt and walked (swam?) away from the wreck. Attempts to right the aircraft failed, and today it is still upside down and now aground. We motored over in our dingy and took some pictures for our flying friends on PC. This does bring up a philosophical question: I know the saying is "Any landing you walk away from is a good landing", but does this count for swimming too? Tom [attachmentid=9522] [attachmentid=9523]
My vote is yes. That's for credit/no credit. If you're talking letter grade, I'd give it a D. Maybe C-. That's still passing although it does not meet standards.
Absolutely does count. But it also illustrates "fly the plane until it's stopped". Did he forget the controls into the wind, or was it just too much? At any rate, glad it was survivable. On a more superficial note, I've often wonder, is an aircraft that was submerged in fresh water "salvagable"?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(htmlspinnr @ Jul 8 2007, 03:49 PM) [snapback]475141[/snapback]</div> I didn't get a chance to talk to the pilot. They whisked them both away in an ambulance, just to be safe. As for salvage, I wondered about that. Obviously the engine will need a major, and there will be airframe damage from bouncing on the bottom in the waves. Corrosion shouldn't be a problem, but I don't imagine it will do the avionics any good. Tom
Wonder if the pilot was taxiing on the step, or at least too fast. Even 25kts dead abeam won't upset an airplane if it's moving slowly. But if taxiing fast enough that 25kts of surface wind is enough to create a flyable relative wind, you're asking for trouble. Doesn't sound like the accident happened during the "rollout" (or whatever the post touchdown phase is called in a seaplane) since you mentioned the pilot was making a turn when he got flipped - or he was being very careless if he was still decelerating after touchdown. On a wide open lake, where there's ample room to land dead into the wind and slow straight ahead to taxiing speed, I can't think of any legitimate excuse for this kind of accident. Nonetheless, any arrival you can get away from under your own power (walking, swimming, crawling) is classified as "good" according to ICAO standards, and any arrival that leaves the airplane useable again without excessive repair is classified as "excellent". Mark Baird Alameda CA *ICAO: Irredeemable Confabulators of Aeronautical Oratory
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Jul 8 2007, 05:34 PM) [snapback]475186[/snapback]</div> This is definitely "wide open" water by most standards. It's 12 miles across to the other side, 25 miles down to Traverse City, and about 60 to the upper peninsula. I've taxied a land plane in over 40 kts of wind, so I know what you mean about 25 not being too much. I suspect what got him was the waves. The wind had pulled around a bit, and they were getting bigger. It doesn't take much to get a float plane rolling with a beam sea. I think he got rolling with the waves, and a gust of wind finished the job. I don't know how fast he was taxiing, but that certainly could be a contributing factor. Tom
I have an update that explains what happened, and it was a problem with the waves. The pilot had already landed and was starting a takeoff run. He applied full throttle, and before they built up speed to get on the step, the combination of maximum thrust and big waves caused them to bury the front of the pontoons, sort of like stubbing your toes - over they went - yeeeehaaaa. Tom
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(qbee42 @ Jul 8 2007, 06:57 PM) [snapback]475265[/snapback]</div> I'm not sea rated either, but wouldn't a bit of back elevator reduce the chance of that - sort of like a soft field takeoff?
Gbee42, Any idea what kind of plane it was? - Just curious... (Not seaplane rated either, but its something I want to get eventually)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(htmlspinnr @ Jul 9 2007, 12:34 PM) [snapback]475554[/snapback]</div> Yes, and if you have room, you want to feed the power in carefully. At slow speeds, the floats are doing just that, floating, and it's easy to make them rock back and forth. As the plane picks up speed, the floats act like water skis and plane across the surface of the water, instead of pushing through it. As speed increases further, the planing effect also increases, until the aircraft is able to move "onto the step", which is to say it lifts up onto the front section of the floats (just in front of the wheels in the photos). The area in front of the step acts like a smaller water ski, which is all that is needed at high speed. The smaller ski has less surface area in contact with the water, so therefor less drag, allowing the aircraft to further speed up. The final trick is getting the floats to pop off of the water. Small waves can be used to get enough bounce to do the job. Sometimes pilots circle to build up a little chop. Otherwise, you can use a little aileron to lift one float at a time. Or you can eliminate all of the complexity and do what this guy did, and just flip it at the beginning of the takeoff run. Tom
This looks like the prelim. accident report (which reported the plane as a Cessna 185): *************************************************************************** ** Report created 7/9/2007 Record 6 ** *************************************************************************** IDENTIFICATION Regis#: 45DS Make/Model: C185 Description: 185, A185 Skywagon, Skywagon 185, AgCar Date: 07/07/2007 Time: 2100 Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N Damage: Substantial LOCATION City: NORTHPORT State: MI Country: US DESCRIPTION AIRCRAFT ON DEPARTURE, FLOATS TOOK ON WATER AND AIRCRAFT TIPPED OVER, NORTHPORT, MI INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0 # Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: WEATHER: KCVX 072054Z AUTO 24010G21KT 10SM CLR 28/14 A2982 OTHER DATA Activity: Pleasure Phase: Take-off Operation: OTHER FAA FSDO: GRAND RAPIDS, MI (GL09) Entry date: 07/09/2007 Always good to see "Highest Injury: None"
First thing I looked at was to see if the wheels were down; I've actually seen a float plane land with them extended. And...over we go!! The pilot floated to the surface holding a paddle, and tried to row the inverted airplane to shore.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Jul 9 2007, 02:35 PM) [snapback]475648[/snapback]</div> Now that would be a hard paddling job! The report posted above is the correct one, right here in the big metropolis of Northport, Michigan (population 624). Tom
Another update: The Cessna 185 just went by our house on two trailers. The second one had the wings, everything else was on the first. It didn't look too bad, considering. Tom
