Prius MFD Operating System

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by pkhoury, Nov 2, 2007.

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  1. pkhoury

    pkhoury Proud TDI owner

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    Here's an interesting question I was thinking of - does the Prius (new or first/second gen) run an off-the-shelf operating system and hardware for their MFD, or is it a custom Toyota-Internal solution? What about the hardware? Being a techie, I've been wondering this for a while.
     
    #1 pkhoury, Nov 2, 2007
  2. pigwot

    pigwot Junior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pkhoury @ Nov 2 2007, 01:02 PM) [snapback]533942[/snapback]</div>
    An interesting question... maybe a derivative of Debian or some other *nix?
     
    #2 pigwot, Nov 3, 2007
  3. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    #3 ken1784, Nov 3, 2007
  4. Rest

    Rest Active Member

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    I thought it was Linux.
     
    #4 Rest, Nov 3, 2007
  5. cheule

    cheule New Member

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    #5 cheule, Nov 3, 2007
  6. pkhoury

    pkhoury Proud TDI owner

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sean Blumenthal @ Nov 3 2007, 12:25 AM) [snapback]534245[/snapback]</div>
    Makes me wonder. At least I've never seen the MFD crash or hang. Unlike my Samsung cell phone (I swear it runs Windows CE or something) which always crashes.
     
    #6 pkhoury, Nov 3, 2007
  7. pkhoury

    pkhoury Proud TDI owner

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    Also, I take it nobody has really hacked into the MFD, or got a command prompt or anything? Any ideas as to the actual hardware used for the ECU (cpu, etc)?

    Paul
     
    #7 pkhoury, Nov 3, 2007
  8. wgary

    wgary Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pkhoury @ Nov 3 2007, 08:40 PM) [snapback]534482[/snapback]</div>
    Given the tech allure of this care, I am simply amazed that this hasn't been done! Certainly some techie type wants to come up with a FREE way to defeat the "gray" syndrome when in motion, which may be "safe" but is extremely annoying. I mean, 300 is a lot of tamales to pay for LockPick, I'd rather get some speakers...
     
    #8 wgary, Nov 4, 2007
  9. alanh

    alanh Active Member

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    I've poked around in the boot file of the Nav DVD. There are references in it to various /dev devices like /dev/cd/cd1/slot0/ and /dev/avc_lan, which is a unixoid sort of thing.
     
    #9 alanh, Nov 4, 2007
  10. pkhoury

    pkhoury Proud TDI owner

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(alanh @ Nov 3 2007, 09:59 PM) [snapback]534543[/snapback]</div>

    And this is for which year? I once copied the PCMCIA Type III hard drive for a Toyota Sienna
    Nav system while I was in the shuttle van, and the files appeared to be DOS based.

    Anything with /dev is definitely UNIX based. It sounds like Linux, but I'm a Solaris kinda guy.

    But back on topic - has anyone here actually taken apart the ECU? I'm seriously curious in addition to OS what kind of CPU, RAM, etc is in there. Considering that the Prius is esentially a computer on wheels.

    Paul
     
    #10 pkhoury, Nov 4, 2007
  11. momanz

    momanz Junior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pkhoury @ Nov 4 2007, 02:03 AM) [snapback]534560[/snapback]</div>
    Here's an article on the tear-down of various hardware components in the Prius. I'd like to get a closer look at the boards in the MFD anyone have any closeups?

    -m
     
    #11 momanz, Nov 4, 2007
  12. pkhoury

    pkhoury Proud TDI owner

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(momanz @ Nov 4 2007, 08:55 PM) [snapback]534822[/snapback]</div>
    This is definitely informative. Okay, so we have two PCB's with CPU's. And they mention 16MB of FLASH and 64MB of RAM. I'm thinking maybe a realtime OS like QNX or VxWorks, or the ITRON OS as specified above, in order to fit in 16MB (maybe slightly compressed, since you figure when you start the car, and you have the Toyota logo screen, that's when it's boot strapping).

    Now I wonder if you could technically add bluetooth functionality if you just added the bluetooth board (and if the microphone is already built in).
     
    #12 pkhoury, Nov 7, 2007
  13. AnailizeR

    AnailizeR Junior Member

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    Well .. I am always up to spreading "muy love" open ... after I go for my 4000 mile oil change probably this weekend .. i will do some work .. which reminds me .. never got around to posting my dash board pics ... damn work sucks...
     
    #13 AnailizeR, Nov 8, 2007
  14. pkhoury

    pkhoury Proud TDI owner

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    After doing some research for something else, this seems to suggest that my prognosis might be correct:

    http://www.qnx.com/style/_swf/automotive/q...tomotive_v4.swf

    It takes a while for the list to scroll, but very likely the Prius uses QNX (per the above thread that says the nav DVD uses a unix FS).

    Paul
     
    #14 pkhoury, Nov 25, 2007
  15. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    It will undoubtedly be some embedded system pared down to do the
    tasks it does without general-purpose OS fluff, likely built around
    one of the development systems / kernels mentioned. I hadn't seen
    this thread yet but you can certainly get a look at how the MFD is
    constructed in the page I put together last week. I've also jotted
    down some chip numbers [which you probably can't see from the pix]
    and was going to try looking some of them up, but I think we'll find
    that it's a lot of proprietary stuff or fpgas and uCs whose
    programming you don't have a copy of. No, this probably doesn't
    help much.
    .
    _H*
     
    #15 hobbit, Nov 25, 2007
  16. Bill Merchant

    Bill Merchant absit invidia

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    I think the Prius isn't a computer on wheels, it's a cluster of computers on wheels, connected by three LANs. For highest reliability, specific tasks, such as braking, are controlled by embedded RT controllers. They talk to each other, of course, since various functions interrelate.
     
    #16 Bill Merchant, Nov 26, 2007
    Data Daedalus likes this.
  17. RonH

    RonH Member

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    Another possibility no one's mentioned is that there is no OS. Embedded systems with hard realtime constraints like, say, the ABS system, can't afford to let an operating system kernel fool around with scheduling and priority and what not. The boostrap loads the application which runs a single loop with polling I/O and a watch dog timer to reboot if something goes wrong. Keep it simple and keep control.
     
    #17 RonH, Nov 26, 2007
  18. Bill Merchant

    Bill Merchant absit invidia

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    Didn't I say that?
     
    #18 Bill Merchant, Nov 26, 2007
  19. pkhoury

    pkhoury Proud TDI owner

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bill Merchant @ Nov 25 2007, 11:12 PM) [snapback]544171[/snapback]</div>
    Still makes me wonder. I know QNX does tasks like embedded controllers for nuclear power plants, and 911 call centers. Ya never know.

    The people who took the whole car apart (too tired to remember if I posted the link or not) said
    that there is a decent amount of RAM on some of the boards (I think 64 or 96MB of flash), so you figure it has something in there.

    I noticed also a soldered Lithium button cell. I wonder what happens when it goes out? I know the life expectency of those things are only about 5-8 years.

    Paul
     
    #19 pkhoury, Nov 26, 2007
  20. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RonH @ Nov 26 2007, 04:06 PM) [snapback]544161[/snapback]</div>
    That's just what I was about to say. :huh:


    Sorry I'm lost in the geek world (said in the nicest way)
     
    #20 patsparks, Nov 26, 2007
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