Water Pump + 12V battery : related problem?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Dsears3, Oct 14, 2008.

  1. Dsears3

    Dsears3 Junior Member

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    Last week, my 2006 Prius (with 45,000 miles) got the Red Triangle of Death AND the orange engine shape at EXACTLY the same second.
    No other problems, no advance noises nor concerns. I stopped within a half mile to a safe place, looked in my manual which said 1) refer to the MFD and 2) get it to a service ASAP.
    My MFD (I have a Package 4 if that means anything) noted nothing (I checked every screen + choice.)
    I got it towed to Toyota service which said:
    1) Water Pump not functioning -covered under the warranty
    and
    2) the smaller 12V battery was dead- NOT covered - $220- because that was considered Wear and Tear.

    FYI: I had bought the Additional Warranty when I first got the car.

    My question(s) are this
    1) Where/how would I have found a diagnosis or more info on my MFD?
    but more importantly:
    2) What are the chances that this battery AND the water pump would BOTH go bad -at exactly the same second- and not be related?

    The latter is important to me because this was a really unexpected expense- and wear and tear might be believeable if I had any advance warning on the battery- like dimming lights, slower start???But then I don't completely understand the entire connection between the hybrid and mechanical systems.

    So go easy on me, guys, and try to explain this with non-technical terms-and maybe not too condescending a tone, OK?
     
    #1 Dsears3, Oct 14, 2008
  2. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    The two failures sound unrelated, so the chances of both going at the same time are very slim. Perhaps the pump has been failing for a while, and the dealer found it when you went in for service.

    The 12V battery dieing is not unusual. They are not very big, and don't last forever. Obviously you didn't have an option this time, but next time replace it yourself and save a few bucks.

    A week 12V battery should not cause trouble while driving. Once the Prius is started, 12V power is supplied by a DC to DC converter, so you should be able to remove the 12V battery and keep driving. If the battery failed shorted that would be a different story.

    Tom
     
    #2 qbee42, Oct 14, 2008
  3. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    your 12 volt battery also got warranty
    i got mine replaced under warranty because it was dead after2 years.
     
    #3 Flying White Dutchman, Oct 14, 2008
  4. Dsears3

    Dsears3 Junior Member

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    Thanks for the reply...yikes , a $200 battery going dead after just 2 years?
    If that is normal, and like this time gives no adfvance warning at all, it'll be hard to be pro-active and buy one and change it myself at a convenient time...I mean this was as sudden as can be.
    I will hope it happens in my driveway -and not like this time: in the fast lane at rush hour!

    One more thing: if they just stumbled on the water pump problem while on the diagnostic machine, were both symbols (the Red Triangle AND the engine icon) just for the battery only? or for the water pump?

    Technical climber? Where?
    Use to free climb in Arizona many years ago, and rapel in the islands...miss it in flat Florida...
    I digress...
     
    #4 Dsears3, Oct 14, 2008
  5. Dsears3

    Dsears3 Junior Member

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    The dealership's service manager said "no"; kept repeating Wear and Tear, not related problem, that I was lucky it lasted 2 years, and that Florida heat, yada, yada.
    Meanwhile I've never had my much less expensive previous car's batteries go bad that fast.(and most of the miles are looong miles Florida to Maine a few times)

    Did they give you any documentation? or do you have any advice how I can proceed since I've already paid the hostage fee to get my car back, since they apparently must place the claim with the "Additional Warranty" company?
     
    #5 Dsears3, Oct 14, 2008
  6. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    tested it one´s because i already told them something was wrong
    told me nothing was wrong
    then it dead! and it got replaced!
    my prev. car did mpre then 6 to 8 years on 1 battery

    i now keep a small solar panel connected to keep the from discharging to fast
     
    #6 Flying White Dutchman, Oct 14, 2008
  7. Dsears3

    Dsears3 Junior Member

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    What was the "something" that "was wrong"?
    I didn't have any warnings at all!
    Was it your original Prius battery; they did say if it was NOT the original, it would be coverred under a pro-rated replacement battery warranty
     
    #7 Dsears3, Oct 14, 2008
  8. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    the 12v battery should be covered under the 3/36 warranty. since your mileage is outside of that, despite the time portion of the warranty it's not covered.

    there aren't any lights that come on to indicate a bad 12v battery, and as mentioned before if the car is running a dead 12v will not stop it. but you would get a diagnostic code for the failure in the water pump. did they say which one they replaced?
     
    #8 galaxee, Oct 14, 2008
  9. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Canada, and mostly Kentucky. We also ice climb in Canada.

    Tom
     
    #9 qbee42, Oct 14, 2008
  10. Rokeby

    Rokeby Member

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    Dsears3,

    The ScanGauge can help prevent being totally surprised by a dying or just
    died 12 V battery.

    Sure, most folks think of the SG as a tool to maximize your FE/MPGs. It is
    all of that, and much more. In your case, it would also have given you the
    ability to see some basic failure codes logged on the failures you
    encountered.

    More to the point, with the SG, you can check the 12V battery's resting
    voltage. With a SG installed, you can check the voltage each morning before
    you start the car. Even with the car turned off the SG can retrieve 12V
    battery voltage. I have read in posts here that it should be in the 12.4 to
    12.7 range.

    If it is lower after sitting overnight, it time to consider a replacement. I've
    also read here that it may take only as little as 10.5V to boot the CPU(s) to
    get the big HV battery to supply 12V through the DC converter. But it''s
    probable that you'd be experiencing other strange occurrences before that.

    At $160US, the ScanGuage should be a first mod. It will pay for itself in fuel
    savings, and be a great help in cases like this.

    Standard Disclaimer: Other than owning, loving, and using my SG daily, I
    have no connections with the manufacturer what so ever.
     
    #10 Rokeby, Oct 14, 2008
  11. Dsears3

    Dsears3 Junior Member

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    Just got home and read the service report/receipts:
    Inverter Water Pump: diagnostic code P0A93

    Rokeby: with all due respect; I'm trying to recup an unexpected expense right here; I'm not in the mood to spend another $120 on a gauge...for a long range possible savings. I'm just getting over the fact that my wonderful 06 Prius with its excellent repair record per Conusmer Rep[orts had to be towed after just 2 years/45,000miles (that's 4 years and 20,000 miles sooner than any Amrican car I've ever owned, and MANY more years/miles lower than any Toyota i've owned.
     
    #11 Dsears3, Oct 14, 2008
  12. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    • i think your just one of the 1.000.000 prius drivers that got unlucky!

      i noticed that the central doorunlocking sounded weak
      and after leaving the car on IGON for just a few min the car gave me a RED light on the dash that something was wrong.

      thats combined with fact that the inside doom light started to give off less light i suspected the 12 volt battery.
     
    #12 Flying White Dutchman, Oct 15, 2008
  13. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    The inverter coolant pump is a weak point of the car. However your car's failure at 45K miles seems sooner than reasonable.

    You live in a very hot area, which is not helpful for battery longevity. After the pump failed, the DC to DC converter overheated and stopped working, which forced the 12V battery to produce power to keep the car running. Apparently the battery was in marginal condition, so it could not recover after being drained.
     
    #13 Patrick Wong, Oct 16, 2008
  14. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Patrick has this one figured out. The poor little battery didn't stand a chance.

    Tom
     
    #14 qbee42, Oct 16, 2008
  15. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    if the dc/dc converter quit working, and drained the 12v that way there would be associated codes in addition to inverter cooling performance.

    dc/dc converter has a fail-safe mode in case of overheating. if this mode is entered and aux battery drops below 11v while the car is running, dtc P0A08/264 will be set.
     
    #15 galaxee, Oct 17, 2008
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