Out of Gas - TWO Bars Remaining

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Devil's Advocate, May 16, 2005.

  1. Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate Member

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    I have read what I could on the "Fuel tank" inaccuracies, but this seems like something new.

    - Today I was going to San Diego
    - my fuel gauge had just dropped from three to two bars remaining
    - I then coasted to an exit ramp, when I stopped I was out of charge on the HV (two bars, light grey), which was odd since I just "coasted" three miles.
    - the ICE then started up and recharged the HV to 4 Bars
    - drove to a gas station nearby, no ICE action, felt ICE try to start then abort
    - Filled the tank; only took 9.8 gallons (complete fill up to the top of the spout)
    - 45 MPG shown on the MFD
    - 333 miles since last fill up, 9.8 gallons
    - Car purchased new with 5 miles on 2/4/05

    Now I understand that the bladder is turning out to be a calculation disaster, but what I have not heard of is the Gauge registering TWO bars when it was actually empty!!!

    Any ideas or any other info required to figure out?
     
    #1 Devil's Advocate, May 16, 2005
  2. DonDNH

    DonDNH Senior Member

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    I doubt you were out of gas if you only were able to fill with 9.8 gallons.

    I think I would let Toyota service know about this. If it happens again the more information Toyota has the easier it will be to identify a cause. Maybe there will be an error code stored that could help identify a failure of some sort.
     
    #2 DonDNH, May 16, 2005
  3. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    If you didn't get the big bad red triangle, you didn't run out of gas. Even if you did get the triangle of doom, it could be that you needed reprogramming.
     
    #3 DanMan32, May 16, 2005
  4. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Another vote for 'you weren't out of gas'. Sometimes the ICE will think it needs to start, it will spin up, then decide it wasn't needed after all.
     
    #4 efusco, May 16, 2005
  5. Robert Taylor

    Robert Taylor New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco\";p=\"89863)</div>
    I totally agree, this sounds like the doings of the computer. It runs the ICE much more if the air conditioning (meaning heat or cooling) is on, and will make calculations for starting/stopping based upon an entire series of criteria.

    Leaving the Auto Air off does increase fuel economy, sometimes as much as 4/5 MPG

    Often, people are unaware of small inclines that require enough throttle to move up them in traffic and this triggers an ICE startup. So, what happens is the ICE starts up, the driver eases up on the accelerator totally, then the ICE stops. After 10K in miles you learn some of this.

    Paying attention to how far you can coast goes a long way towards higher MPG.
     
    #5 Robert Taylor, May 16, 2005
  6. Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate Member

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    Oh no, I got the Big red Triangle. I have run out of gas twice before so I learned where, when and how it happens. This was totally unexpected.

    Additional clarification: after I coasted to a stop and did a restart the ICE did re-start and charge the HV to 4 bars and then stopped. I then drove to the gas station (about half a mile away) and the ICE did not restart durig the drive, but I did feel it sputter once.

    It is possible that I was in fact out of gas. After checking my spreadsheet again it turns out that I only put in 9.06 gallons at the previous re-fuel. Which when multiplied by 45 equals 432. No that doesn't make any sense???????

    Is there any way that the sending unit can trick the car into believing it is empty, even though it SHOWS TWO bars remaining? Could part of the bladder have come loose or folded in a manner that prevents an amount of fuel from reaching the intake port?

    I have a feeling this bladder deal was not completely thought out given the problems that have already been documented with it as well as the WILDLY varying fuel capacities. THis thing should be completely re0placed as a safety hazard since a miscalculation of two gallons of fuel could potentially strand someone in the middle of nowhere. and NO you should not have to fill up with a 1/4 tank remaining to insure that you don't completely run out of gas. That is ridiculous in a modern car.
     
    #6 Devil's Advocate, May 16, 2005
  7. Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate Member

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    Also, the CHECK ENGINE light is now on and won't go off, so I have to get to a dealer to check it out. The car runs fine however and is getting about 46 MPG since the fill-up.
     
    #7 Devil's Advocate, May 16, 2005
  8. bookrats

    bookrats New Member

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    I would definitely take it into the dealer at this point; I think you're at the point where they need to get the diagnostic data out of the computer.

    Just to clarify: the problem you mention in your original post has happened more than once? You mentioned that you've run out of gas twice; do you mean, this problem occured twice before (gas still in tank, but ICE shut down)? Or that you actually ran out of gas twice before?

    There is also a similar problem where, if the gas cap isn't tight enough, a number of warnings come on; but I'm not familiar enough with it to know if the symptoms match the ones you are mentioning.

    (Believe me, I'm not the person you should be listening to -- DanMan32 or Evan, or any number of other folks have followed these sort of things much more closely.)
     
    #8 bookrats, May 16, 2005
  9. Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate Member

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    No, in the first 8 weeks of ownership I drained the tank twice. I knew it was out, out of gas. The last bar was blinking for sometime prior to running out. Yeh, its going to the dealer as soon as I can get there. I am at work about 12 hours a day. I may see if they'll send a tech, or come and get it. That would make sense if they truly wanted to minimize the potential for damage.
     
    #9 Devil's Advocate, May 16, 2005
  10. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    The car actually has a diagnostic code "out of gas", which is triggered when 2 conditions are met:
    Low fuel status (the blinking PIP), and the DTC "Engine failed to start".

    If you got an "Engine failed to start", which does happen on some cars, but did not get the "Low fuel" status, then you probably didn't run out of gas, but you need a reprogramming. If after you "run out of gas", did the gas guage still show 2 bars, or did it drop to blinking suddenly? If the latter, then you have an arguement about the fuel guage and sender. If the former, then you just need a recalibration programming.

    Attila has taken direct CAN readings of fuel in tank status, them raw numbers go all over the place, but seem to average out to a steady value. The display tries to even it out, and adjust for car level and tank temperature.
     
    #10 DanMan32, May 17, 2005
  11. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    One missing detail: did you shut off the car before fuelling?

    Perhaps the previous run-drys have done some damage.
     
    #11 richard schumacher, May 17, 2005
  12. Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate Member

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    - YEs I shut the car dow before after coming to a stop at the end of the freeway ramp.
    - After the re-start the ICE powered the HV back up to 4 bars, which allowed me to get to the Gas Station, during the 1/2 mile drive I felt the ICE try to restart once then fail.
    - It had been approximately 6 weeks and 3200 miles since the last 'run dry' with 7 fill-ups and no problems.
    - the gauge still read two bars remaining so it may need re-calibrated.
    - its been two days and no problems, haven't had time to get to dealer though, and engine check light still on. Still getting 47 MPG.
    other info - fuel economy has improved at least 3 full MPG since switching to Amsoil!
    Still planning on going to the dealer as soon as possible.
     
    #12 Devil's Advocate, May 17, 2005
  13. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    Sounds like you need the recalibration. Yours seems especially stubborn about it.
     
    #13 DanMan32, May 17, 2005
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