EPA asks Toyota to lower fuel economy estimates for hybrids

Why would the EPA need to *ask*?

If they revise the numbers, Toyota and Honda have to use the revised ones, right? That's the song-and-dance so far, as to why things look bad in Real World use: gotta go with what the EPA says...

 

what the H? the EPA is the one that tested the cars and got those figures then tell the auto companies that's the figures to use under penalty of law. Is this a troll?

 

actually each manufacturer does report the mpg figures but they must follow very strict guidelines set by the EPA for testing. realize that the mileage figures are determined without taking the car out of the garage. they are determined by tailpipe emmisions. personally its beyond my conprehension how they can get accurate figures (well duh!! they dont really do they!!) using this method.

i dont think JK is a troll, but i have to wonder about the validity of the article. Toyota has always contended that most drivers would not get EPA rated mileage but as they have stated several times, it is against the law to use any other figures.

if you see, the article is nothing but a blog... so i would discount this as an SUV owner who is obviously upset over the movement towards hybrids and the several favorable legislative matters going through their paces.

he obviously feels left out and is upset over that fact.

 

ok, investigating further, it article in the link cites US News and World Reports as its source. however, when trying to access their site, i cant verify that any such article exists. i tried searching under several different variations and get nothing.

i will say that although it doesnt specify, i think a paid subscription might yield better results although some did get results, nothing about lowering any estimates. just a few general ones on the inaccuracies of the measurements.

 

never figured you were a troll Jeff, you have consistently posted the most Hybrid/Prius stories of anyone on PC. I thought the article might be a troll. Keep posting and we'll keep reading them. Most of the stuff that is posted in blog form I down grade about 4 out of 5 notches. Well maybe 3.

 

US EPA mileage ratings have always been criticized for having inflated numbers. While a dynanometer can accurately measure vehicle performance as a machine, it doesn't properly simulate real world conditions. The difference between dynanometer and real world readings is greater for high mileage cars, so hybrids have received most of the criticism lately. While I would prefer to get 55 miles per gallon combined, I am quite satisfied with my current 52 miles per gallon (with A/C on).

 

realize that EPA testing was implemented when the national speed limit was 55 mph. in some cars the difference in mpg bet 55 and 65 is as much as 14%.

in the Prius, that might be true as i make the EPA with miles to spare in typical crappy seattle area freeway traffic.

yesterday i drove to Mt. Vernon (just south of Canada) and went through seattle conveinently when there was a semi on I-5 who decided to dump his trailer in the middle of rush hour traffic!! : before this time i was at 50.4 mpg averaging bet 65-75 mph. ( . so i drove about 25 miles from south of seatle to almost everett at 45-60 mph. my mileage went to 54 mpg. then i drove nearly 20 miles to just north of everett at 5-20 mph... my overall tank mileage went to 59.5 (my calculated figures for that stretch was 81.2 mpg!!! and YES i had plenty of time to calculate!!)

so i say Toyota stick to your guns. fact is, some people do get or come very close to EPA figures and if i aint in the real world, it sure is one hell of a good copy!!

 

Why is the EPA blaming Toyota and Honda? The EPA is one the with the terribly unrealistic stupid test! In the EPA test, the engine is already warmed up, the outside temp is something like 72 and the average highway speed is 48 mph! When do you go 48 mph on the highway when not in traffic?!! I go between 55 and 90! At 90 you only get 25 mph...duh!

And besides that, I always get between 50-60mpg!!! (when my dad isn't in the car insisting on 60 degrees as the cabin temp in the summer)

Much to the chagrin of many people not used to a Prius, the Prius is different than a conventional IC engine powered car. To get the most benefit out of the HSD system, usually you can't "just drive it". Look at our friend Ray Moore from Texas; he got over 700 miles on a tank meaning he averaged over 60 mpg-- that included a lot of highway driving....

There are people who get the mileage! So many Americans speed and tailgate and slam on the brakes with the AC full blast. That's so inefficient, and people don't realize it. I had no clue how inefficiently I drove until I started driving a Prius. It's no one's fault, it's just the way it is.

The EPA should have been too embarrassed to even ask Toyota and Honda to change the numbers in the first place. Their crappy "scientific" testing is their own fault.
Good for Toyota and Honda for not settling for that nonsense!

 

i have had a few people ask me how i figured incremental trip mpg's...

well its all by computer and i consider the computer to be very accurate. much more so than using the reading from gas pumps. but how i do it is;

say you have gone 150 miles and computer reads 50 mpg.

then driving pattern changes like in my situatio above so now you have 200 miles and are at 55 mpg.

the first leg will have used 3 gallons of gas if we divide 150 miles by 50 mpg

to determine amount of gas used in last 50 miles, divide 200 by 55 mpg to get 3.64 mpg.

so that means you went 50 miles on .64 gallons for an mpg of 78.13 mpg!!

it is incremental trips like this that really makes me proud of my Prius....

oh... using this method blows the "99.9 mpg" figure out of the water.

my record for incremental mileage on fairly level ground... 26 miles at 121.3 mpg that was driving at 20-25 mpg and hitting 11 of 14 lights green.

 

EPA Measurements

The Prius is built to SI standards (modern metric system). Interstate highways are built to SI standards. Despite the Omnibus Trade Act of 1988 (signed by President Bush senior) mandating all federal agencies use SI units effective October 1992, the EPA continues to measure emissions in "grams per mile."

If the federal EPA cannot get basic measuring units straight, we cannot expect EPA to calculate "complex" units of fuel economy correctly. Toyota needs to continue to do its own testing and post both EPA "reduced" fuel economy figures and Toyota fuel economy figures. Bottom line: drive conservatively and know your vehicle.

 

ummm i m sure the EPA knows the conversion from miles to kilometers.

 

Right now I'm at 59.9 MPG with 432 miles on the tank. Afternoon temps have been in the 90s with my thermostat at 76 or 77. I always use auto AC but override to always use recirc to keep out the heat and humidity. I think 700 miles on this tank should be pretty easy at this point. I drive 60 to 65 mph for about 60% of my driving. The EPA estimates are easy to obtain. It is also easy to obtain 45 MPG if you drive agressively and use the brakes alot. I coast up to almost every red light. Other people beat me to town but not by more than a few minutes and most people get there about the same time I do. I try to represent my style of driving as accurately as possible. I am not getting the best mileage on this board. My results are obtainable by many people with a 30 mile commute. I suppose in the winter my mileage will drop. I see no reason to change the EPA estimates. I try to achieve them. When I bought the car I only hoped to get 50 MPG. I love driving for high mileage. It is the most fun I've ever had driving. I drove a BMW 1000 for many years but even that wasn't as much fun as maintaining a 60MPG average. It gives me a feeling of accomplishment to minimize the environmental effects of my long commute. That feeling hasn't worn off after 12,000 miles and my mileage continues to improve. The latest addition is my "huper optik" window tint that reduces the load on my AC. Keeping the battery compartment cool makes a huge difference on mileage results. Everytime people complain about poor mileage I'll just show them the pictures of some of my recent tanks. I'll have another one next week. Go Prius

 

oooh brother~~!!

i was so pleased to read an informative and accurate article then i got to the next to last paragraph...

Air conditioning actually puts a burden on the engine. That's no big deal for a powerful V-8 engine, but for the sort of small engine that powers an economy car or, even worse, a gas/electric hybrid, air conditioning can be big drain on fuel efficiency.

i have found this statement when concerning my Prius to be completely untrue. i have yet to determine how much my mileage is affected since i still have wonderful mileage even during the hottest days.
here is a screen shot taken at the end of the 3 hottest days of the year here. realize it aint as bad as most, but my air was set at 72º and was very comfortable. as you can see, my mileage didnt suffer

http://priuschat.com/forums/album_pic.php?pic_id=690

as far as all this EPA baloney... its beginning to look like SUV makers performing ineffective damage control.

 

I think the EPA is bowing to pressure from US auto makers who find their market threatened by high-mileage foreign hybrid cars. Lucky for them, they have the US government in their back pocket. I thought EPA stood for Environmental Protection Agency--what a joke!

 

It does ... on my not exactly high powered '95 Odyssey. I can feel the power hit when I push the A/C button. On the other hand, since the '04 Prius A/C is not engine compressor driven, this claim will be a hard sell. The engine might run more to keep up with the amps used by the electric compressor, but it sure as heck isn't going to drag it down.

 

Given that the EPA is a government agency, they probably have rules against not using the exact results of their tests. So, they ask T & H to take the fall.

 

lower the amount to what.?? last trip home from Austin, tx to San Angelo at 65 MPH I got 52 mpg... It is in how you drive this car...

Heck, I wish I was getting the 65+ some have reported getting up north... maybe when the temp comes down..

I say if Toyota must lower there numbers then the BIG 3 must do the same...

EPA, come up with some "Real World" tests... test including temps 90+ and 32 and under... for all.. with the air comp. on.

OK, gang up north.. come clean.. how are you doing it..