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Wisconsin has doubled the registration fee on hybrids. The rational is that hybrids, because they are more efficient, don't pay as much fuel tax as other vehicles. I cannot argue with that premise, but the legislation ignores the fact that there are scores of other vehicles using the roads with similar or even greater efficiency.

Readers of this forum are fully aware of those vehicles, I'm sure; the diesels, CNG/NGV's , motorcycles, mopeds and even the now incredibly efficient ICE- only cars like the Versa and Cruze.

How is this tax- specifically on hybrids- not discriminatory? Is it legal for a state government to tax one citizen for using roads while not paying fees, but not another doing so similarly?

I know the new Wisconsin law has been discussed on this forum pretty thoroughly up to this point, but I'm hoping someone with a legal background can tell me whether this legislation would stand up in court.

Per Forbes:

Toyota will be offering the next generation Prius as a hybrid hydrogen electric vehicle, battery electric for short trips such as commuting with a hydrogen fuel cell (presumably?) for longer trips. It appears this will be in addition to the next generation of the gasoline-electric hybrid system.

The Corolla will be offered with the option of a more powerful turbocharged gasoline engine or, in 2023, a hydrogen internal combustion engine in an unknown configuration.

Best answer I've seen yet from Toyota about going full EV.

Toyota President Says 'Silent Majority' Not Convinced on EV-Only Future | PCMag

Unfortunately, Tesla seems to be in a free fall, and I don't mean the stock but the company itself.

Tesla loses top-safety rankings from IIHS, Consumer Reports

I want an EV. And since my Prius, I'd love it to be a Toyota.
But there are none.

Today I found this article, supposedly Toyota is lobbying against EV's. Not in the US myself, so I don't particularly care about the lobbying, but I had expected Toyota to be more technology driven instead of dragging its feet. And actively sabotaging, sorry, lobbying against e.g. California's right to have stricter emission rules is something I would not have expected.

Is it really that bad? From what I read here, people with the Mirai's are left in the cold as well. (I have a dislike for H2 for practical reasons and a total lack of objective reporting in newspapers about the downsides of H2, but our government is pushing it for some reason (also some lobbying going on???)).

BTW, unlike the US (or the US portrayed in sitcoms/movies), people here don't buy new cars very often, partly because they...

I got an invitation to drive the Murai at my local dealer a couple of weeks ago. So I reserved a spot and went last week and drove it.

I'm still against hydrogen fueling, in general, due to the many reasons I and others have mentioned on numerous threads. But the car was nice, drove nice, etc. However, I could only drive on slower side streets...not allowed to go on the freeway...because they wouldn't have enough fuel for everyone! (And they have to be able to drive it back to the refuel station.)

All the things I liked had nothing to do with the power train...just nicer things taken from higher end Toyotas than the Prius. Comfortable leather power seats...automatically slide back when you power off. Side mirrors tilt down when you shift to reverse. AC/heat display . Nicer instrument panel display, etc.

Trunk space...not that great, more like a 2001 Prius. No spare tire. Rear seating head room (no problem for me) but a person that rode with me was 6'0" and complained.

As for...

Source: Tesla Tells Detroit To Stop Fighting Electric Cars

If you compare the EPA mpge numbers for the Toyota Prius Prime vs. the most efficient Tesla Model 3 trims, you will see that they are about the same—Prius Prime itself having 133 mpge with similar numbers for the Model 3. However, how could this be given that the Prius Prime is a much lighter car that runs on much skinnier tires? Well, it isn't. The Tesla Model 3 has a lot lower mpge than the Prius Prime, but they somehow managed to find a way to overstate their mpge values, while virtually all other manufacturers conservatively understate them. The real-world mpge of Prius Prime vs. Tesla Model 3 is probably more like 3 to 2 rather than anywhere near being equal.

The way the range and mpge values work is that they are self-reported by the manufacturers to the EPA. It is an honor system, and we know from the Volkswagen scandal that it could be exploited. Edmunds tested the actual ranges for the EVs, and they found out that virtually all underestimate, many greatly, the real-world...

Volt Electric Car Range: Elevator LEAF

An accurate review:


There is one dodgy claim, $4/kg, for hydrogen. However, it is a minor point.

Bob Wilson

Official press release from Toyota, then photos at the bottom.

• All-New Sporty Exterior Styling with Flowing, One-Motion Silhouette
• Over 50 Percent Increase in Zero Emission Driving Range from Prior Generation Model
• All New Traffic Jam Assist Feature Standard
• Legacy Prius Name to Carry on Toyota’s Commitment to Carbon Neutrality



LOS ANGELES, Calif. (November 16, 2022) – When the Prius Plug-In concept model was first
revealed at the Los Angeles Auto Show back in 2009, few could have seen the important role it
would play in the future of mobility. It offered customers a versatile solution with its pure EV or
hybrid modes, impeccable MPG, and all the tech people expected from a Prius – making it a
perfect addition to the third-generation Prius lineup. Fast forward to now, and the automaker is
ushering in a new era of the Prius legacy—with the reveal of the 2023 Prius Prime at the 2022 Los
Angeles Auto Show.

Now in its tenth year of...

It has finally happened! Apple CarPlay has made it to a Toyota vehicle. The 2019 Avalon will be the first Toyota with Apple CarPlay. I hope this means that 2019 might be the model year the Prius and other Toyota vehicle finally get CarPlay. Unfortunately for android users, Android Auto is not available at this time.

Here is the posting from Toyota about he new Avalon. “Meet the all-new 2019 #Avalon…with captivating design, dynamics and an elevated level of luxury. Now with Apple CarPlay. #NAIAS”

Americans insist on 300 miles of EV range. They’re right - Autoblog

GM announced that they're killing off the volt.

Is Toyota Prius hybrid simply passe now that plug-in cars are here?

Not sure if this thread is appropriate here; mods delete or move as necessary. Random EV musings...

Now that Toyota has released pricing and specs on its upcoming Rav4 Prime, considering a fully loaded Rav4 Prime is ~$47k in the US, with initial fed tax credits of ~$7500 bringing the price down to ~$40k, I find myself cross shopping a Tesla (which has no more fed tax credits remaining) to replace my gas guzzling Lexus LX570.

A new standard range RWD Model 3 is $38k. Long range AWD Model 3 is $47k.

And looking at Tesla website for used Teslas in Northern Cal: a used 2015 Model S at ~40k miles with AWD is ~$40k. A used 2016 Model X is ~$53k. A new LR Model Y is $53k.

Which is the more compelling long term buy? Toyota is more reliable, but only ~43 miles on electricity and still has the moving parts/maintenance of an ICE to deal with. Tesla's have 250-320 range and a super charger network, but has random build issues, and long road trips require planning around charging...

Update 4:45pm: There will not be an opportunity to do any additional walkthroughs of the Prime this week, unfortunately. But we should have a chance to drive it pretty soon and of course will have video available of that. Here is the recorded version of the Periscope video from this morning (the Periscope links will go to video archive heaven soon):



Update 3/23 12pm: We have 2 Periscope videos for replay so far: A walkaround with Nathan Kokes from Toyota's Prius Team, and a quick chat with the Chief Engineer. This afternoon we'll have a full walkthrough of the car. Keep an eye on Periscope/Twitter for that.

PriusChat on Periscope

Walk Around: PriusChat on Periscope: "Untitled"
Chat with Chief: PriusChat on Periscope: "Untitled"

Just like in Vegas for...

A Plugin ?!? Wait . . . That's insane. In fact, that's Ludicrous

Tesla Model S P85D Breaks the Consumer Reports Ratings System

A surprise? CR car testers are often slanted to the gear head mentality - so it was unusual to see they rated it above their scale of a perfect 100.
Mod note: Changed link to go directly to Consumer Reports website.