<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bill Merchant @ May 15 2006, 10:36 AM) [snapback]255634[/snapback]</div> Holy crap it IS THEEEE Bill Merchant himself!!!!! B)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 15 2006, 07:32 AM) [snapback]255630[/snapback]</div> Here is the link to the actual study, in case anyone wants to buy the book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/product-d...7342595-1984862 It is astonishing that the study is being touted as backing up the position of being opposed to "gay adoption". The quote given above mischaracterizes the main findings of the study. One of these findings is that children raised by same-sex parents are NO MORE OR LESS LIKELY to be gay. They may, as the study points out, be slightly more likely to experiment, but this experimentation does not make them more likely to be gay. The findings of the study also indirectly support another conclusion: "exposure" to gay people, even being raised by gay people, does not increase the likelihood of someone growing up to be gay. - Bob R.
My dad (and my aunt) were adopted as infants. My 'grandparents' (all I ever knew them as) were old spiteful people who were far more interested in appearances than love, and I'm still quite convinced that my dad and his sister turned out better with them than they would have in foster care or orphanages. There are people out there in committed long term relationships that want to offer a future to kids who would otherwise not get that chance. There are kids out there being raised by single parents, by siblings, by drunkards - we do little to protect children by excluding a group of people from adopting based on sexuality. I tend to agree that a child who is raised in a household where 'gay' is more like hair color than a scarlet letter would be more likely to acknowledge homosexual feelings in themselves. I don't think it's more likely to 'turn them gay' if that was the question I was meant to answer.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bobr1 @ May 15 2006, 10:56 AM) [snapback]255653[/snapback]</div> What is "slightly"? See, it's this sort of thing that I don't think "flies", why even chance and open the door to experimentation?
The other thing implied here is that even if it's possible that the children are somewhat more likely to experiment or be gay that that's a bad thing. That's the revelation of the prejudice. Change the word homosexual to heterosexual and does it sound bad? So, unless you think being gay is inherently "bad" or "wrong" then the quote/statement is irrelevant.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ May 15 2006, 11:10 AM) [snapback]255664[/snapback]</div> That's right. I would not want a child experimenting with homosexual behavior anymore than drugs like heroin. If that makes me "prejudiced" in this respect, I take the title WITH HONOR.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 15 2006, 10:16 AM) [snapback]255667[/snapback]</div> It does. Just as much as if a mixed race couple adoped a white child and they 'experiemented' with a black child. It's unfettered bigotry...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 15 2006, 08:02 AM) [snapback]255660[/snapback]</div> Squid, I'll make you a deal. Convince all your heterosexual friends nationwide to adopt or take care of all the foster kids and orphans currently on waiting lists, of all races and in all states of physical condition or sickness. Once the waiting lists of kids looking for loving homes is cleared up, then I'll listen to theories of how banning gay people from adopting is somehow good for kids. Until then, it's just hot air and prejudice, and it is literally hurting children. - Bob R. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 15 2006, 08:16 AM) [snapback]255667[/snapback]</div> Congratulations, Squid, admitting you are prejudiced is the first step on the road to recovery. Thanks also for comparing gay people with deadly addictive drugs. Oh, by the way, I'm still waiting for your apology from the marriage thread where you said that I discriminated against Christians. - Bob R.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bobr1 @ May 15 2006, 11:19 AM) [snapback]255672[/snapback]</div> Oh yeah right, blame the hetero's now... Hey, no one said anything about not allowing gay adoption. Personally, I don't care, I'm merely presenting the argument, and picking out a fine point I find interesting, HOWEVER, I don't see experimentation with homosexuality as simply "ok". I have yet to hear a good reason for opening that door in the first place. On top of that, claiming homosexuality is totally genetic (for which I've previously stated I believe there is a range from 100% genetic to 100% choice) might make the argument there is no need for experimentation in the first place.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 15 2006, 11:16 AM) [snapback]255667[/snapback]</div> Why don't you ask the man pictured in your avatar (or his daughter) what HE thinks.
oh here we go. so anyone who's raised in anything other than a married-male-and-female relationship has a disadvantage and children of married heteros are better off. hmph. married couples are more fit to raise children? okay, there was a recent case here near raleigh where a married mother ended up killing her little adopted son with extreme punishment because he was misbehaving. there were a number of other adopted children in the family. plenty of cases of extreme abuse come from married hetero families. some advantage that little boy had. i grew up in a single-parent turned married-hetero family. i started out ok, but turned out as one of those angry, mistrusting people who has a general disdain for quite a bit of society. i'm not the only one. i have a friend who grew up in a married-hetero turned committed-gay family. she turned out just fine. and it didn't bother her that her mom was gay, and she never questioned her own sexuality because of her mom's lifestyle. you can't base your statistics on the sexual orientation and marital status qualities alone. there's much more to parenting than that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bobr1 @ May 15 2006, 11:22 AM) [snapback]255672[/snapback]</div> Bob, you'd likely call anyone against any aspect of homosexuality "prejudiced" from your standpoint. I can dislike homosexuality as much as I can Pistachio ice cream, and if I'm going to be labeled a bigot for it, I'm not exactly reaching for a tissue... <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ May 15 2006, 11:28 AM) [snapback]255677[/snapback]</div> I wouldn't be surprised if he personally doesn't like it. Does he accept it and love his daughter just as much, probably (then again, we aren't exactly privy to his private life). I can most assuredly accept it, but I DON'T have to like it, and I should retain this right without being called a "bigot", which is how the homosexual community would like it to be perceived.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 15 2006, 08:30 AM) [snapback]255679[/snapback]</div> If you were basing your comparisons on flavors of ice cream, no, I would not call you "prejudiced". However, you have instead compared homosexuality to deadly addictive drugs ("heroin" in this case, just 10 minutes ago, in this very thread, in case you have forgotten) and have advocated against the "exposure" of 2nd graders to the very idea of 2 men being married. I seriously doubt that you would advocate against the "exposure" of kids to ice cream. Therefore, your ice cream analogy is completely wrong. You _do_ compare gay people to some very ugly concepts. You _do_ rail against the idea of "exposure" of the existence of gay couples and you _do_ decry the fact from the study that YOU QUOTED that even if people experiment with homosexuality it does not make them more or less likely to be gay. So yes, Squid, you are prejudiced. Plain and simple. - Bob R.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 15 2006, 11:25 AM) [snapback]255675[/snapback]</div> Squid, you're jumping a little too quick there, even for you. You know perfectly well that what he was saying is that if the people who are against gay adoption really want to protect children from bad childhoods, they should get off their duffs and start adopting. I'm going to (mostly) avoid the (yes, it's predjudiced) comment in the hopes that your reasoning for not wanting theoretical children to be gay is the same as mine - I really hope my brothers are both straight, because I don't want them to have to put up with the hatred that I've seen my gay friends have to deal with.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 15 2006, 11:34 AM) [snapback]255679[/snapback]</div> Frankly, I really don't care whether or not you "like" it- that's your business. I am more concerned about the- and there's no other word for it- bigots who are attempting to legislate against it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bobr1 @ May 15 2006, 11:35 AM) [snapback]255683[/snapback]</div> The comparison is PRECISELY structured to illustrate the point, that, it IS OK TO NOT like homosexuality. Why should my genetic predisposition against homosexuality be SUPRESSED? It shouldn't anymore than homosexuality itself. What's NOT ok, obviously, is to discriminate simply because you don't like it. You call me prejudiced, fine, you, obviously, would. I'm totally fine with it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 15 2006, 08:42 AM) [snapback]255689[/snapback]</div> And the comparison fails completely both in structure and in execution. I hope you're not an architect. Hey, nobody's asking YOU to engage in homosexuality. (Especially not if you look anything like the guy in your avatar.) If you're predisposed against gay sex, don't engage in it. - Bob R.
I'd be far more worried about Mystery Squid adopting than Mr+Mr Random Gay Couple, personally. Or indeed having children at all. Yeurch. And MS, no-one has a problem with you not liking pistachio ice-cream. What they have a problem with is you being the sort of person who goes around the place questioning the morals and character of people who do, trying to drum up scare stories about the health effects of pistachio ice-cream, trying to revoke the rights of pistachio ice-cream eaters and generally trying to make their life more unpleasant. Why the hell is it any of your business if they eat pistachio ice-cream? And why are you so obsessed with pistachio ice-cream if you don't like it? Shut the f*** up and go and eat your vanilla. (Assuming you get any ice-cream at all...)
