High Na level in oil resolved

You folks may recall about 1-2 months ago I posted the results of a UOA (Used Oil Analysis) on my 2004 Prius. I had run Mobil 1 0W-30 for a bit over 8,000km, and the wear metals were remarkably low. The TBN was still +7, so the oil was clearly good for much longer intervals.

The only concern was a high Na level, around 78 ppm. A "normal" reading would be under 20 ppm. I followed up with another UOA at half-interval (4,000km) and the Na was 15 ppm. ?? That didn't make any sense.

I then managed to talk the dealer into filling the 120ml sample bottle with their bulk Mystery Oil 5W-30 from the tote bin dispenser system. I had the results back almost a month ago, but was in China on business, and then had to deal with a family tragedy.

Long story short: the dealer oil, which the car ran on for the first two oil changes, had a virgin Na level of 398 ppm! The testing lab had quite a few issues with that oil, including a bit of moisture, some dirt, Fe (Iron), and even some sulfur. Clearly, this is a VERY poor quality oil.

This turned into a wild goose chase for me. The testing lab naturally assumed a slow coolant seep, but the usual indicators were not there. After chasing some dead ends, including a few VOA of Mobil 1, they suggested I try to get a sample of the oil previously used.

This is another lesson of why empirical data is all that counts. You can’t depend on “gut feeling†or “I heard from my pappy†or whatever. You need cold hard numbers ie data. To think some folks probably trust the oil put in their car because “it has to be good.â€

 

John:

Thank you, it’s good to be back. I needed the quiet introspective time with family. Now I can go back to being an introverted mean Type A workaholic.

Jay

 

Hi Dave:

Yep, that's exactly what I mean. There really is no such thing as "Toyota" oil, with the bulk lube dispenser system it's whatever bulk oil dealer that claims to meet minimum API specs.

Here is an example of an automated shop lube dispersant system:

http://www.benfordfueling.com/shop/page305.html

Jay

 

Frank:

Thanks. You've "been there and done that" at least I didn't have to watch somebody linger for years.

Oh I doubt there is any grounds for a lawsuit. That crap they were using probably barely met minimum API requirements.

Perhaps that is why some folks complained of sludged-up motors, with oil as lousy as this garbage was, no wonder.

Jay

 

Oops.

Thanks to the forum member for actually asking me *what* the results were. Sorry, I claim Junior Alzheimers.

All results in ppm, except water which is %. The numbers the lab flagged as out of range have an asterisk.

Toyota Bulk 5W-30, at dispenser point:

*Fe 7*
Cr 0
Mo 127
Al 4
Cu 0
Pb 0
Sn 0
Si 6
*Na 398*
Zn 686
K 9

Water 0.8%

The lab comments: "Urgent levels of Na detected. Na reading is unacceptably high for a new oil. Particle count also unacceptably high. Su detected. Possible contamination of bulk oil system, recommend investigating distributor of bulk oil, inspection of bulk oil dispensing system, and filtration of bulk oil at point of use.â€

I've seen the tote bin that holds the mystery oil, it's a poly tank so it can't rust. The Fe must be from the bulk distributor.

Scary.

 

Actually, I didn't mind it at all. I learned some of this already from the industrial work I do, as most large industrial machines do point-of-use monitoring and inspection of the lube system.

I just never thought I'd have to do it with my own car. Around $100 Cdn later I certainly feel a lot better, it's cheaper than a new motor.

 

Frank:

Yes, and yes. I'm in full CYA mode here, in case the motor should happen to have an "unforeseen" future problem, and Toyota Canada tries to blame it on my use of Mobil 1.

Jay

 

Hmmm now that you mention it ....

 

Frank:

Actually I've noticed that Mobil 1 is sort of "dark" while new in the bottle. I did notice that sample of "Toyota" mystery oil was very pale color, like honey.

If you remember from that UOA I did on my Prius, the wear metals and insolubles were very low - good - and the TBN was still quite high. The oil looked almost black at 8,000km, but it still had a lot of life left in it.

Jay

 

See? There are *many* advantages to having no social life!

:blink: