Just trying trying to wrap my brain around this one...

RE-WRITTEN INITIAL POST

Just trying to wrap my brain around this... Understanding things from a mechanic's perspective or those who were in similar situations will be a big help!

Thoughts on one or more questions much appreciated:
1. What would you do if you were in my situation? ["I'd shoot myself," my brother's response, already given, thanks anyway!]
a. Dispute the transaction with my bank (used debit card) since he overcharged me on labor (but be prepared for mechanics lien)
b. Take him to small claims court
c. Other

2. What does Motor (or any mechanic labor guide) estimate the hours required for engine replacement? It appears 12-16 hours is a reasonable estimate based largely on what I found in these forums. Meanwhile, the mechanic claims Motor says 35 hours, which I'd like to verify.

3. Is it normal for the key FOB to stop working (lock/unlock buttons do work, but must insert FOB into dash to start car) after an engine replacement? This happened, without explanation, when I got the car back. Is this permanent or can it be reset. If so, how?

4. I asked if mechanic checked level of carbon build-up on pistons (believe indicates how well engine was maintained; I have no idea how difficult this is check) and he said "no." Said supplier uses "standard" compression test on engines. Asked for mileage and he said 70,000. Asked how long was engine sitting and he had no idea. This makes me a little nervous based on what I've learned about engines. Mechanic gave only a 6-month warranty on engine. How can I check the health of the engine? Does someone have a Techstream template I can use for a "live test?" (not sure that even makes sense)

5. How serious is having a mechanics lien filed against you?

For some background on my completed engine replacement, here's a partial transcript of the phone call with the mechanic (also shop owner):

ME: Is it about 10 hours labor to take the engine out and put a new one back in? Or..

MECHANIC: You're looking probably like 15 or so, it's a pretty big deal, you know. You do other stuff while you have the engine out... [unintelligible] If you're gonna do something that big, you want to do it right...

ME: What's the rate on labor?

MECHANIC: Labor is $95 an hour.

ME: So $1,500?

MECHANIC: Yeah you're probably $1,500 just in labor...

ME: Yeah...

MECHANIC: Plus engine, whatever that would cost...

ME: Right.

MECHANIC: You know, I'm thinking probably... You're probably looking at about three grand so you're at about $4,500.

So the estimate, with what I knew was well-above market price for an engine, was $4,500. The mechanic said the labor and engine would come with a warranty. The mechanic found an engine with 70k miles cheaper than he expected and charged $1,200 for it.

However, the mechanic then inflated his labor hour estimate to 35 hours ($3,325) to reach his original $4,500 estimate. He didn't quote me $4,500 (in fact, his final bill was higher than that amount). His reason for the increase is his shop uses book hours (Motor @ 35 hrs) not actual hours. I understand using "book hours" is an industry-wide practice. But for all I knew, the 15 hours he mentioned @ $95/hr for $1,500 was using book hours! It seems to me we agreed on labor cost and the engine price was the only unknown.

The mechanic also denied several times we ever discussed 15 hours or "probably $1,500 just in labor" until I provided him with the recording of our conversation. This makes the unexpected, substantial change in labor hours seem even more suspicious.

In hindsight, a firm quote in writing - along with a copy of the warranty, which he's refused to provide - would've avoided these issues. I've offered to compromise at 25 hours labor and he's refused. The warranty is only six months for the engine and 12 months on labor and I have no idea what's covered.

I'm looking for advice on how to move forward on this in a positive, constructive and fair way.
Thanks!

________________________
p.s., For those who are familiar with how I got to this point: Yes, I'm checking the oil level every two weeks, not every 5,000 miles, pay very careful attention to any warning light indicators, and got Techstream set up and running!!

 

Hey, thanks for the quick response. There's a legal distinction between an estimate and a quote: An estimate is a rough guess given available information (e.g., he didn't know engine price) and agreement on a quote viewed as a binding agreement (can't charge more/less without other parties consent). On the receipt (only thing we have written) he indicates price as an estimate. He also charged more than that amount, so that undermines his argument it was a firm quote (so doesn't matter if he got engine for $1 and charged 50 hrs labor, the price is unchanged).

The recording proves the mechanic was untruthful about our agreement of 15 hours, which hurts his credibility. In email, he wrote, "We use MOTOR labor guide and charged 35 hours which is exactly what was estimated. I dont know if i misspoke verbally when discussing your engine or you misheard but the labor time is correct and is what you and i agreed to."

Final nail in the coffin for him will be if he just made up the number of Motor labor hours, which I can't find online. I've seen one example where Motor labor hour estimates were almost twice those of Chilton, Mitchell, etc.

 

I've been searching online for the Motor engine replacement labor hour estimate, but Toyota dealership book hours makes a lot of sense and I may have more luck.

Yes, it's running. I'm working on a separate post where I show the before/after Techstream results because there are a lot of new error codes and I don't know which may be related (or completely unrelated, maybe coincidental) to the work completed.

Thanks for your reply!

 

@JC91006 Thanks for the reference point, much appreciated. I'd think mechanic prices would be higher in Los Angeles than Atlanta!

I was okay with the $1,500 and about $1,200 as final price for the engine, but jacking up the hours after we explicitly agreed on the labor cost, THEN claiming 35 hours is what we agreed to all along, is what really set me off.

"We use MOTOR labor guide and charged 35 hours which is exactly what was estimated. I dont know if i misspoke verbally when discussing your engine or you misheard but the labor time is correct and is what you and i agreed to."

Thank God I recorded our conversation (Georgia's a "single party consent" state, so legal and admissible in Court).

 

My initial post is horribly written - sorry about that... Yes, the mechanic completed the job, the car works (although there are a few issues I'm trying to sort through), and he's overcharging me on labor (since the engine price was lower than he expected).

@JC91006 Unfortunately, I already paid him. However, I did so with a debit card and can dispute the charges (overbilled me on labor charges). If he files a mechanics lien then he can just have the thing!

@ChapmanF Nice catch. Appreciate your careful reading of my post. I rewrote the intro for clarity.

@Skibob OMG. I'm dreading going to my other thread. Does it make any sense Techstream gave same three codes consistently before giving it to the shop and right after getting it back I'm at 13? Is it possible mechanic screwed something up, didn't plug something in, etc. that explains it or just coincidence? Now I'm fearing the worst after he tried to claim we always were in agreement on number of labor hours and when I asked him hours when picked up he said, "took full 15" (wife heard same thing) then he misspoke or I misheard. I sent him the audio from our call that confirms the transcript and he still isn't budging.

@Mendel Leisk Thanks for helping me finally "get a clue" I needed to be more clear in my post.