1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Level 1 vs level 2 charging: efficiency vs battery lifespan

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Prime Charging' started by Chimera1978, Feb 19, 2024.

  1. Chimera1978

    Chimera1978 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2023
    37
    9
    0
    Location:
    San Diego
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    I am trying to figure out if it is better to charge on level 1 or level 2 both from an efficiency perspective and from a battery lifespan perspective. I seem to see that it is more efficient to charge on level 2, which makes sense: if it is the same current due a shorter period of time size it is charging at at a higher voltage, there would be less loss due to resistance in the wires, therefore more efficient. However, I also know that charging at level 2 is more stressful on the batteries and degrade the lifespan of the batteries themselves, but how much? Would it significantly reduce the useful life of the batteries, that is make it sooner before they won't hold a good charge? Maybe since there is a 10 year warranty on the batteries and I can get them replaced before the warranty expires, maybe I shouldn't worry about it on the original battery pack...?
     
  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,814
    16,056
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Significantly? No. At L2, you’re charging at… 3.3kW? 3.5kW? The battery size is 13.6kWh? 3.5/13.6 is approximately 0.25. So you’re charging at 0.25C. Anything less than 1C is fine. C being charge rate and not coulomb. 1C is the power equivalent to the size of the battery. (In the case of the Gen 5 Prime, that’ll be 13.6kW).

    If anything, L1 could wear out the wires more given that you’re running current through it for longer periods.

    With a PHEV, specifically a Toyota PHEV, I wouldn’t worry too much. Toyota is a conservative company and they’ll take great pains to ensure their products last (see the slow charging on the bZ4X).
     
  3. RandyPete

    RandyPete Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2021
    124
    28
    0
    Location:
    Santa Margarita, CA, USA
    Vehicle:
    2024 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    How do you 'wear out the wires'. What does that even mean ?
     
  4. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    949
    313
    0
    The level 2 has more current flowing through the wires but bigger wires in level 2 evse. Toyota says the included charging device has a lifespan. That’s a plus for the level 2 because the car device isn’t used. Other people here know more and say the level2 may degrade the pack faster.
    I bet Toyota won’t replace your pack at ten years so you get another new pack. From what others have said, they aren’t that generous. You will have reduced capacity maybe. I think the owners manual talks about it. Like you have half the capacity but the car functions perfectly the same except range on ev.
    I rarely use my full ev range only if going on a trip. I can do fine with half. That’s the beauty of a plug in hybrid.
     
  5. Louis19

    Louis19 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2022
    348
    309
    0
    Location:
    Laval Québec Canada
    Vehicle:
    2022 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Upgrade
    Yes indeed , how sweet it is !:)
     
  6. NullDev

    NullDev Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2024
    42
    13
    0
    Location:
    Ohio
    Vehicle:
    2024 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    The most likely thing to fail in the external charger are the electrolytic caps due to heat. They all have a limited lifespan that is dependent on their temperature. The electrolyte is a liquid/gel that evaporates and degrades faster as it warms up. For instance, it may be rated for 3000 hours @ 100C. Typically, each 10C drop in temperature will double it's lifespan (so running at 90C will last 6000 hours in this example).
    If they designed the charger properly, it shouldn't get that warm inside. Unfortunately, size and material costs usually win out over lifespan.