Here he goes again... Lutz: New fuel rules will hike GM vehicle prices by an average $6,000 Also of particular note: 'He said didn't believe that Americans were ready "to abandon the vehicles they have come to know and love in the United States" and that the "worst thing" would be to stop building V-8 powered cars and trucks.'
Highlander Hybrid achieves CAFE 35 MPG and if you equip it similarly, it doesn't cost $6,000 more than the non-hybrid. The Highlander Hybrid starts at $33,700 and it is available now in the showroom - 12 years before the law requires it.
That's the adjusted 2008 MPG numbers. The unadjusted number is 35.1911 MPG [see UNRND COMP (EPA) column]. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/epadata/08data.zip
If you are using the unrnd comp numbers, I want some of what you are smoking. J/K. No way I am getting even close to 33 MPG on highway on my Honda s2k. Or even 26 mpg average. That is with very relaxed driving style. Now, if you can somehow adjust those numbers to make my s2k get that mileage... [And no, I cannot only drive downhill in netural for the rest of the car's life]. So I don't understand why you are using those numbers for.
Yes... But why did seawolf use that number if no one can get that numbers consistantly by most drivers? Isn't that stretching the truth? If using Seawolf's logic (from GM's perspective), then the Tahoe hybrid is a great SUV because it gets 28.2 mpg average and still can tow over 6000 lbs. Do I believe this crap, no? At least GM did not say that, they said it will get 21 mpg and do all those crap no one does with it.
Okay, I humbly bow to you. Every snide, cute, punny, or witty remark I'm going to post, I find you've beaten me to it. sigh.
Not me! EPA is using UNRND number to calculate NHTSA CAFE MPG) Here is a quote from the recently passed 35 MPG CAFE law HR6-8 (page8): "The Secretary of Transportation, after consultation with the Secretary of Energy and the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, shall prescribe separate average fuel economy standards..." Over at NHTSA's site, they explained how they get the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) number. Since I wasn't sure if EPA use the NHTSA MPG or the unadjusted numbers (for emission calculation), I compared the 2007 CAFE number and manually calculated from the EPA spreadsheet below. From DOT web site, here is the PDF with the breakdown of CAFE by the year. It lists Honda 2007 CAFE as 39.9 MPG. From the 2007 EPA spreadsheet, if you take the highest fuel economy of each model variance and average up the UNRND numbers, you get 39.98 MPG! Honda S2000: 26.0621 Honda Civic Hybrid: 58.8362 Honda Accord 2.4L Manual: 33.91 Honda Fit 1.5 Manual: 41.1418 -------------------------------------- Honda Light Passenger CAFE: 39.98 I did the same to Toyota but 2007 data was missing Scion XA and XB. Any way, the number I got was pretty close. When I get more time, I'll list out and do the actual calculation. So this is the proof that EPA use UNRND column to calculate CAFE (unless someone can proof me wrong ).
Yes, it is very misleading. What's even worse? There is a loophole with Ethanol. A quote from wikipedia: "Fuel economy calculation for alternative fuel vehicles multiplies the actual fuel used by a "Fuel Content" Factor of 0.15 as an incentive to develop alternative fuel vehicles. Dual-fuel vehicles, such as E85 capable models, are taken as the average of this alternative fuel rating and its gasoline rate. Thus a 15 mpg dual-fuel E85 capable vehicle would be rated as 40 mpg for CAFE purposes, in spite of the fact that less than one percent of the fuel used in E85 capable vehicles is actually E85."
Reading the article was like being in a time machine where the ancient quote of "What is good for GM is good for the country" was stated. Every now and then you get a glimpse of the GM boardroom thinking. Style vs Substance. This battle has been won at GM by the S........ crowd.
yes and no. The EPA adjusts because it knows it's unrealistic. I think the Prius gets > 70mpg in the city unadjusted (huge boost for Toyota). And it's certaintly not out of the question. I mean the Prius is rated at 83.5mpg in Japan, 60mpg (old EPA) in the US, 59mpg in Canada, 55mpg in Germany (I'm quoting city mileage btw).
Except our Prius' supposed premium is suposedly under $6,000. But GM's will be more? I wonder if Lutz was telling a lie. Were his lips moving? How much is the premium between a standard Camry, versus a Hummer? ... or a Camry versus a Vette? Etc. Where's all Lutz's hub-bub concern about THOSE premiums?
You seem to be very confused Dipper. What people are trying to tell you is that the 2008 EPA numbers on the window sticker and the numbers used for CAFE calculations are completely different. CAFE calculations are still based on the original formula from the 70's. So even if we do get to 35 mpg CAFE, the real average fuel consumption would only be about 26 mpg. It may be stretching the truth but the guilty party is the federal government. This doesn't even take into account that per the new 35mpg CAFE regulations vehicles are seperated into classes and each class has a seperate requirement. However, the classes are never averaged so the fleet from a company that only made large cars could average significantly less than 35 mpg.
Yep. The window sticker numbers we saw on pre-MY 2008 vehicles were already adjusted downards by 10% for city and 22% for highway (p. 2 of http://www.consumersunion.org/Oct_CR_Fuel_Economy.pdf and many other places mention this) from raw EPA dyno numbers. The vehicles aren't driven on a road. How Vehicles Are Tested and Fuel Economy Test Schedules go over the procedure. They before only ran the highway and city tests. For MY 2008 and beyond, they the three additional (high speed, AC and cold temp). However, none of this has any bearing on the "35 mpg" CAFE numbers and how they're derived. Usbseawolf2000 is correct in pointing out Honda's 07 39.9 mpg, but it's only their "import passenger car" fleet. Their domestic passenger car fleet got 33.7 and "light trucks" got 24.8. The CAFE numbers for a given fleet and model year are weighted by production volumes so low volume vehicles like the S2000 would count a lot less towards Honda's CAFE numbers than their other vehicles.
the boost isn't quite that high I think the Wikipedia entry is a little off. The boost is high, but not that high. I discussed it at http://priuschat.com/forums/other-cars/24059-hummer-ad-bragging-h3-gets-20-highway-mpg-3.html#post314603 and Altima Hybrid pics - Page 2 - MY350Z.COM Forums. Consumer Reports tested a 07 Tahoe that would be rated "21 mpg" for CAFE purposes yet it gets rated at "35 mpg" since it's flex-fuel capable. Never mind that they got only 14 mpg in their testing on gasoline and 10 mpg on E85.
