New car break in

I believe that nowadays, engine tolerances are much tighter, thus not requiring much break-in. Any metal shavings from break-in should have been removed at the first oil change.

 

1) From my understanding of Toyota's CVT, car speed has only a tenuous relationship to engine RPM - the engine pretty much runs in a tight band, and therefore constant, or non-constant road speed (or even high speed) has little effect? Is my understanding of this system (and the reason for break-in running) off?
No; engine & transmission are tied directly to the wheels - so adjusting RPM & speed on the highway as the ICE is running has a direct relationship to speed. The engine will shut-off if you take your foot off the gas pedal to coast. The ICE will remain running; if your traction battery is too low.
What your describing is a BEV with a gasoline back-up generator (ie. BMW i3-REx)

2) I see that the oil change interval is 10K, with no requirement for (early) changing out the 'break in' oil. True?
Correct; but most of us will do our own flush-out about 1K miles in.

Hope this helps....

I do recommend adding a motion senor to the car's alarm system. I just saw a news report of new car rims & tires getting stolen. Car left up on blocks. Possibly install mag wheel locks to deter them also.

 

For what it's worth, watching my OBD2 app, the RPM varies with power requirements.
In ECO mode, the tach maxes out at 5500 RPM under hard acceleration, and in PWR mode it goes to 6000. For most regular cruising, the engine runs around 2500-3000 RPM.

 

I hesitate to comment on these type threads on PC...but here goes. Oil/filter and trans fluid should always be changed early on new vehicles...always.

 

I believe in an oil and filter change around 800-1000 miles from new, but I don't go for a trans fluid change with an e-CVT until about 6y/60k. I understand the rationale for changing trans fluid early in general, but I don't think it's needed for an e-CVT. But I certainly wouldn't stop someone from doing it if they really wanted to.


In the end, I believe it all comes down to how long you plan to own the car. Will the powertrain stay healthy through the entire warranty period with the service schedule from the manual? Absolutely. Barring some weird event, I have no doubt the powertrain will last until 150k with no major repairs using 1y/10k oil changes and no trans fluid changes. But how much more than 150k, I don't know.

But with a break-in oil change before 1k, regular 6m/5k oil changes after that, coolant changes at 5y/50k, and trans fluid changes at 6y/60k, I bet the powertrain will comfortably hit 300k+ with no major work needed.

So if you plan to trade off your new car in something like 5y/100k, you'll never see the benefits of the extra fluid changes. But if you plan to own it for 10y/200k or more, then those extra changes might start to show some value.

But that's all just my opinion(though it's come from listening to experts way smarter and way, way more experienced than me).

 

Yes. "Power split device" more precisely describes what it is, and "CVT" is the net effect with regard to the engine and wheels - a continuously variable transmission. Toyota sometimes call it an e-CVT.

In principle vehicle speed and engine speed are independent.

At a constant high-speed cruise on level ground, the system load and hence engine rpm would stay broadly the same, but not locked like it would be in a normal transmission.

Any slight change in load like hills would shift the system and hence cause rpm shifts.

At lower speed the system will also tend to shift between charging and discharging the battery, which further varies the engine load and hence rpm.

 

RPM dances around some. Main thing, just don't take on any extensive road trips, miles after miles on level roads with cruise on.

I would do a first change 5k miles max, and stick with that. Or yearly, if you're really low use.

 

CVT and eCVT aren't the same thing. A CVT is a lot like a typical automatic transmission. It can just set the transmission gear ratio to anything in its designed range, instead of a set of fixed gear ratios. An eCVT gets its name because the end result is the same as a CVT, but it goes about it in a different manner.

Mechaniclly, Toyota's eCVT is a single speed, clutchless manual transmission. There is a single planetary gear set the MG1 and engine connect to. Technically, the power split device(PSD) is the planetary gear, but it, CVT and transaxle get used interchangeably. The computer controls the MG1 and engine outputs to create the CVT effect.

The break in recommendations in the manual are general ones copied from other Toyota models. While the car will very what is going with the engine, MG1, and the PSD most of the time, take it onto a flat highway, and set the cruise control, they will pretty much stay at the same parameter for the entire trip. So avoid that during the break in.

As for the oil, I just follow the manual. Production control is better, and design tolerances tighter than as it was in past. Grinding parts to fit through early operation isn't really needed to the degree it once was.

 

I think I've actually heard the motor only come on maybe 7 times* in my Prime. She's got maybe 1200 miles on her now. My question here is how much do these old directives for the motor apply when it is hardly ever placed into service? I'm old school and have many habits that tell me to change the fluids earlier than Toyota advises, but I also don't know how to adjust to this paradigm. Is there something accessible via OBD which might advise regarding hours of motor use? That seems like a more reliable measurement to me but I won't know what the recommended number of hours might be nor where I'd find it.

* A few of those time just because my elbow hit the button.

 

I need to drive my car from day 1. Whatever that may be.
Most of my vehicles have over 300k miles before unloading them.

Changing fluids early on is subjective, hardly always on modern vehicles.

 

Toyota just uses the same mileage counter for oil changes in all their cars, no matter if an ICE, hybrid, or PHEV. Engine hours makes sense, but requires re-educating the public, including dealers and techs.

GM and Honda have systems that monitor temperatures and engine operation, then calculates oil life based on known consumption rates of common oil additives. My Chevies called for a change around 7500 miles with it. A Volt can go 2 years before the system says it is due.

 

I had experience with the Honda system (Maintenance Minder); it eclipses the Toyota odometer counter in detail and utility: counts down in percent (to next service) and when down to 15% starts showing an alpha/numeric code, which you can look up in Owners Manual, see precisely what Honda recommends.

 

We have a gen5 prime too. My solution to this dilemma: I have been keeping track of the ICE (hybrid operation) miles driven on the car by just recording all the gasoline that I have purchased (which is not often in this PHEV). Then I multiply the gallons of gas that I have bought by my mpg number (I use ~50 mpg because nearly all of my ICE miles are on the freeway). I then use those calculated and cumulative ICE miles as a guide as to when to change my oil. I plan to do one oil change at about 1,000 ICE miles for my 'break-in' oil change and then, after that, change my oil every 5,000 ICE miles. This will probably be around once per year, but if I go slightly longer than a year, with synthetic oil and a 5,000 mile (ice) oil change interval, I am pretty sure I will be good.

With this method, one will change the oil frequently enough for any ICE usage, but one is also not throwing away perfectly good (and essentially unused) synthetic oil.

 

Maybe changing your initial use would be easier than changing your service interval time for the first service.

If you just never plug the car in for the first five thousand miles so the engine switches on frequently, you'll have something like an ordinary break-in period and you'll discover any weird or catastrophic engine warranty issues relatively soon.

 

Or just skip all the calculation rigamarole, change it yearly? Spring is good, tends to be more accumulated moisture.

 

Well, by keeping track this way, if I drive far more ICE miles (or far less), then I am able to adjust the oil change interval to change the oil more frequently (or less frequently) if needed.

And jotting down the gas that I buy (once every 4 months or so) is super, super easy.

 

I always do oil and trans fluid changes on a schedule even if I may not keep the vehicle past 100k miles. I want to feel good about selling the car to another person. I also maintain my home assuming that I will live in it forever for the same reason.

JeffD

 

One thing with the aforementioned Honda Maintenance Minder system (see attached), all the details, countdown in percent, there's a footnote:


Sometimes the pragmatic approach has advantages. If you've done estimates that determined "roughly" once as year should do, why not just do it yearly. Too, if it's on your calendar, less likely to be forgotten.