newbie learning alignment (I messed up my front toe!)

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by philmcneal, Jan 10, 2008.

  1. philmcneal

    philmcneal Taxi!

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    332
    7
    0
    Location:
    Simcoe Ontario
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    II
    ok its going to be day three tomorrow, but I messed up my front left toe so now I have a total of 2 degrees. Steering wheel is centered a little left, steering return ability is not affected, no pulls (extremely mild) but never exceeded 70 km/h. Although if I was a customer, I'd be outrageous! lol

    i should have used those hunter machines, those are so nice compared to this old school one I'm using (I'm surprised it had specs for my prius though, although those specs are different from all data, michell, john1701... ect... and to get toyota's i godda pay BS!!!!)


    what's worse my instructor told me that my rear toes need a special shimmy for it to work as the ones he has are not compatible with my car. Searching PC a SST is needed (GRRR TOYO!!), it doesn't help I need to disconnect the brake lines ect, and when I do bleed the brake system don't I need a PRIUS SST too? WOW!!!

    I remember seeing an alignment job in alldata explaining labor was around .5 for four items (four wheels) so that alone is 2 hours. Holy ****, are priuses that time consuming to adjust or did I just see something wrong? (I remember somewhere it was quoted 70 CAD for an alignment four wheel job) Hm, and the skill level required was a B too which I assume A is the best youch!

    At least my rear alignment specs are .1 degrees away from being in the red zone (according to the old school machines, my instructor said the instructions from alldata for the prius was junk and it was confusing me even more!!) but what's bugging me is how can I fix the front toe for LEAST ROLLING RESISTANCE AND LONGEST TIRE LIFE? MY prius sees deadband most of its life, and low average speeds and some highway on weekends. But if anyone has the offical TOYO specs would one let me know please! For a tech trying to live in a world full of guzzy cars, but hopefully I can service more niche cars like the prius or perhaps one day be in charge of phev conversions at a toyota dealership if my influence is good enough! (I Get two weeks at a dealership work experience next month, Surrey Auto Mall baby!! I can't wait to see what those TOYO techs are really up to! Espically since I've dealt with a tech that worked on my car that works there, and I'm excited to work along side with him because well my car is still running lol!)


    so ya help a brew out with his front toe settings!! what tips can one give me when adjusting? I remember the all data instructions said something about measuring the lengths of the rack arms so they are equal or something? The problem was, i didn't know where to measure! so frustrating... why can't tech manuals be more percise ;

    sorry to add my tires are fresh (well kinda 3 new, 1 couple of months old) i never had a steering problem to begin with (i just wish it came with less body roll :p) I just wanted to align so I can stop using more rubber because rubber is bad for you!!!

    oh since i'm an hypermiler, do i do the alignment with 35/33 psi or 40/38 psi? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM tough choices
     
    #1 philmcneal, Jan 10, 2008
  2. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    9,810
    468
    0
    Location:
    MD
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    so it sounds like you're just learning the mechanic trade then? (guessing based on the comment with your instructor) good luck to you! and when you get yoru first job, make sure you get short and long term disability insurance immediately as your income is directly related to your physical condition!

    that said... hunter machines are really the only ones worth working with, you'll learn this with time. if you have access to one, use that instead. at the dealer, DH made 1.5 hours for alignments regardless of what vehicle.

    don't know the alignment specs offhand- but if you're not out of spec in the rear don't bother with em. you don't need to disconnect the brake lines to do it, though. you really don't want to get into bleeding prius brakes if you're new to them or to cars in general.

    maybe you should work more directly with your instructor? it's really not a difficult job once you've seen how it's done. it's just an adjustment nut on the tie rod. DH can align a car in about 10 minutes, it's a great paying flat rate job.
     
    #2 galaxee, Jan 10, 2008
  3. philmcneal

    philmcneal Taxi!

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    332
    7
    0
    Location:
    Simcoe Ontario
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    II
    yep i'm taking a mechanics course (it counts as 1st year when i'm done in May) that is aimed towards Toyota products. Although I really don't have a choice on the Hunter machines as they are used up by other students right now ; so I'm forced with what I have right now. I figured out the tie rod sleeve at the very end before it was time to clean up the shop, but how does one know how far to push the rod in and out before tightening the nut back on? I mean its really guess and check from here on unless I can take some sort of measurement before putting the nut back on? I'm just glad I can still drive the car without causing an accident and still get 50 mpg plus :)

    Health insurance eh? I'm aware of the dangers in the automotive trade (lots of theory and shopwork in my class, it really gave me faith in post secondary again as I had lots of bad experiences) although I don't see it much of a problem if your smart and don't go gung ho on everything, in other words yourself before the job. Plus we got health care here in Canada :)

    I remember someone saying that there was an SST required if they do decide to bleed the brakes because of the ties of the regeneration system, however, I did bleed a 98 corolla brakes. (before theory too although we screwed up a bunch of times :p with the brake cylinder calipar going out on us!!)


    Well when I get to the work experience, I'll be sure to give the juicy info on what TOYO techs get to mess around with!

    So far from searching PC I've found a toe setting of .02 on each wheel sounds swell.

    my instructor is a very busy man, he literally runs around the shop assisting other students, he gives me a hand from time to time but sometimes I just fear just because, "its a hybrid" one has to treat it very differently than any other car you know? Its good to know that being able to leave the shop with EV mode is a satisfied feeling :D
     
    #3 philmcneal, Jan 10, 2008
  4. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    9,810
    468
    0
    Location:
    MD
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    you should have a live reading on the alignment machine to check yourself as you go, then tighten the nut down when it's where you want it.

    hubs fixed cars for 10 years, brilliant guy if i don't say so myself. took good care of himself but the job wore out his back. (2 ruptured discs, bunch of neck issues, etc.) i mean it, get yourself DISABILITY insurance... because if you're hurting real bad you can't work hard. and working hard is what pays the bills. before DH's back pain got too bad, we were doing very well for ourselves but as his back wore out more and more, there were weeks he couldn't do any heavy lifting- so no major services and those are what paid the bills. $50 weekly paychecks are no fun, health care covered or not. and while it's awesome that you guys have coverage, i'm sure they don't make up the income you can't make because you're hurt.

    and if you get hurt bad enough to be unable to continue in this career, as DH did, the healthcare system isn't going to re-train you.

    so look into disability insurance. i mean it. we just had the hardest year of our lives because we didn't have it, you can take us as the voice of experience. all those tools just paid off and now he's back in school and we've got no safety net left.

    i'll say it again. cover your nice person, get disability insurance. if your paycheck counts on you being in top condition, get disability insurance.

    yeah, you have to use the scantool if you're going to bleed the brakes but there is no brake bleeding needed for the rear alignment. a prius' brake system is vastly different than a conventional brake system.

    dealer work is fun if you're at a good place, that's for sure. DH loved his time at the dealership, even though it hurt him so badly he sure loved that job.

    some things on a prius are just like regular cars- you'll learn this as you go :) good luck on your training course.
     
    #4 galaxee, Jan 10, 2008
  5. philmcneal

    philmcneal Taxi!

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    332
    7
    0
    Location:
    Simcoe Ontario
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    II
    interesting, I will voice your opinion to my instructor tommorow about the issue about back breaking labor as such. And I will get a student to sit in my car as he does the "sweep to sweep" measurement as I adjust the toes.

    I assume your hubby is going back into school so that he can teach? It seems that, "Those who can't do what they used to do anymore, teach. Since the inspiration of a young one can be more rewarding than one that is old and wise."

    When your hubby has time, I like to hear some of the stories he has gone through that really was labor physical, I thought with today's tools back breaking labor was a thing of a past. Heck we aren't we being called grease monkeys, or a parts replacer, we are technicans *** damnit!

    and when you mean tools, you just mean like simple things like tools wretches and all that? does he carry all his tools in his prius? or does he leaves it at work? Hm I thought I would be at the dealership for like 10 years + before I decide to do something else (the dealership im going to do work experience at claims their techs make 80000 a year. Holy shit i can so ration that amount of money since I have very little desires in life...

    btw do you have children? I have my wife as a homemaker taking care of an infant and boy he's a job on his own! I find it impossible for both parents to work if an infant is less than 10 years old espically at the age of 22.

    many thx to your replies galaxxee good luck to both of you!
     
    #5 philmcneal, Jan 10, 2008
  6. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    9,810
    468
    0
    Location:
    MD
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    well if you're pulling wheels off 4runners and such those run 90lbs and better. then putting them back on, lifting them back up to put them back on the car, it adds up quickly. reaching up and pounding an axle out out of a transmission from under a car is very physical work. there's lots of physical stuff to be done on a car, you really have to be in good shape to keep up and make the money.

    it is a demanding job for sure, and that's why i say if you're going to invest the time and the effort to learn this you should protect yourself with insurance. if we had fought the rejection letter we'd be in far better shape now. especially if you have a family relying on your income.

    80k is good money... i think that's above average but who knows with the pricing differences across the border. DH was making in the 30s as a master tech because he did most of the shop's diagnostics and di-ag doesn't pay well.

    he is going for his associate's degree in biomedical equipment technology. he will still be the guy who fixes stuff, but different stuff. he considered teaching an automotive course, but decided if he can't be the guy who's doing the fixing, he wouldn't be happy doing it.

    we've got about a year's income worth of tools in a big professional box and two smaller boxes. all kinds of stuff from wrench and screwdriver sets to impact guns, coolant bleeding tools, exhaust hanger tools, specialty toyota tools, etc. individually they can range from ten bucks for a socket to several hundred dollars for a very specialty type item.

    no kids for us yet, i'm 25 and he's 29, and we haven't had the stability in life to feel ok bringing another person into the equation yet. just when i reached a point in my education where i could time things just right to have a baby, all this stuff with his back happened and destroyed our savings, destroyed our income, and sent us back to square one. we'd love to have a couple kids one of these days. best to your wife and little one :)

    we need good dedicated techs out there, so make us proud! but just understand that you NEED to protect yourself in case of the worst case scenario of you not being able to work. it's so important. i wish we had pursued that long before DH had evidence of back troubles.
     
    #6 galaxee, Jan 11, 2008
  7. philmcneal

    philmcneal Taxi!

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    332
    7
    0
    Location:
    Simcoe Ontario
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    II
    wow at the age of 29 and back problems? I will consider your post a serious one then, thanks for the encouraging replies!

    ps: you two are much younger than I much thought ;) you guys have a lot to go through when you get that first baby :D w00 i'm done the most hardest part in life hahahah! when my son is 20 i'm going to be hip at 40 whoo!!
     
    #7 philmcneal, Jan 11, 2008
  8. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    7,512
    1,188
    0
    Location:
    Carmichael, CA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    The Toyota spec (2007 so I would think it applies to 04-08) is 0° ± 0.2° for the front toe in. That's total toe in for both wheels. 0° should give you the best tire life.
     
    #8 dogfriend, Jan 11, 2008
  9. philmcneal

    philmcneal Taxi!

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    332
    7
    0
    Location:
    Simcoe Ontario
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    II
    yeah it was messed, i was trying to set my toes for a total of degees. jounced and then it still read zero, did the sweep to sweep and then toe settings were in the negatives for both wheels?!?! the wacked part is the steering wheel is aligned straight and the car does not wander, even at highway speeds. But I do remember my caster and camber are well on their way off, so in the end a professional alginment job is in need.

    Thanks for the comments!
     
    #9 philmcneal, Jan 12, 2008
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)