I have the following comparison and wonder if one can be used to replace the other. If one Toyota Prius 7.2V Nimh HV Battery Cells 6.5ah 04-09 | eBay can be replaced by other Customize NiMH Battery pack: 7.2V 10Ah (6xD) Triangle shape with open end wire If someone(me) is going to rebuild(or make a custom replacement) their aging OEM HV pack .Can or could you go with the 7.2 /10 ah triangle or should have only oem replacement?
Here's the problem. You will not be able to utilize the additional 3.5 ah on the triangle batteries (unless you can somehow spoof it). The HSD will always think you have a 6.5ah pack and adjust charging/discharging accordingly. Additionally, what is the "C" rating for these cells? Is it compatible with the HSD's regen braking system? I would go w/ OEM.
Plus, the leads on the 10 Ah triangles are 24AWG. Unless you could replace the leads, that won't work. The "triangle" cells are really 6 D cell batteries. I don't think they are meant to be scaled up into multi-kwh packs....
Not finding "ratings" I assume much like any custom pack madeup of "D" size cells... There are several amphour(ah) choices possible from 5ah-30ah. I understand OEM HV pack will only acknowldedge up to 6.5ah with that understood I would need to have ability to recharge back to 10ah which is a not that difficult to fix/charge.....Also oem hv bms will only see 6.5ah which is also not and issue.......I do agree that I need to know charge/discharge capacity 4amp charge/8-9amp discharge 500 cycle
This is my concern here and I agree totally..........I was thinking multi/cells would not be compatible with large single cell
Our OE Prius modules ARE multicell (6 in series). They also can handle 100A charge/discharge currents (130A in 2010+ modules). D cells would be quickly overheated and destroyed if used in a Prius without reprogramming the ECU to limit the current (as was done to protect the Honda Civic Battery Modules). JeffD
Any Suggestion on the following......... OEM HV battery pack replacement Prices range from $900(used) to $2400(new) and everywhere in between.... The market has sellers from Toyota, ebay, hybrid bdepot, salvage yards and craiglist...with the exception of a local Toyota dealer none of these are "new".......some are "recondition" and "rebalanced" their selling word terminology
A working battery from salvage (later year the better) is going to be better than a rebuild because all the modules will be of the same age and balance. Moving the modules around center to outside will help increase the life further by evening out the temperature drying affect on the center modules.
It's a pity the 10amp/hr cells cannot be used (limited current handling) because, if they were, and are used under the Prius charge discharge system they should last a very long time. The cycle use would only be about 25% of there capacity instead of the 40% of the OEM battery.
Please explain further ......The OEM are 7.2vdc 6.5ah then pair 14vdc 12ah although there may be high amps at some point I doubt any one cell is taking the amount you suggest but rather in transmission (electric current) and distribution much lower is flowing to any one cell/module..............
The capacity of the battery cells is 6.5amp/hr at 1.2volts. 6 cells in a module = 7.2volts. 28 modules in the battery 28x7.2=201.6volts still at 6.5amp/hr this is the capacity of the battery. The battery can be discharged slowly at say 6.5amps and would last till discharged 1hr. If discharged at 65amps it would last 6mins at 100amps the maximum rate for the battery it would last 3.9mins. The Prius does draw large current (up to 100amps) from the battery and charges the battery (under regen braking) at high amps. The battery cells are designed for these loads, other cells such as D cells may have a higher capacity (10amp/hr) but the cannot be charged or discharged at high rates (up to 100amps)
+1 To what BritPrius said. No, the modules are all in series, so whatever current the battery pack is drawing then every module and every cell will draw that same current.
If you connect cells in series the amp/hr capacity remains the same as one cell. The voltage is the sum of the number of cells X the voltage of one cell. If you connect cells in parallel the amp/hr capacity is the sum of the amp/hr capacity of all of the cells. The voltage is the voltage of one cell.
Britprius and Uart are correct. all 28 modules are in series as are all 168 cells and if a current is drawn in or out of the HV battery, that current flows through each and every module/cell. JeffD
I am going to go with "No freaking way". Maybe if you put ten in parallel (so 280 in total, over $12,000) they could cope with the current the prius uses. Make it do 10C and at best you waste your money and and worst you cause a fire or small explosion. DO NOT DO THIS! The prius cells are very specialised, and very advanced.
Okay So the Honda Insight packs (made of "D" nimh 1.2vdc) all wrong and no frickin way enjoy InsightCentral.net - Encyclopedia - Honda Insight Battery Module
Why would you spend $1,300 on those triangle shape batteries? How are you going to house them? Look at the wire gauge size coming out of those batteries and tell me how well they will handle 80A peak current flow without melting. Compare the size of those wires to the bus bars used to interconnect the Prius battery modules. Honda does not have a reputation for sourcing high performance, long-lasting traction batteries. Ask owners of the older-generation Honda Civic Hybrid whose batteries deteriorated and got no help from Honda other than to change the powertrain management software so that the car relies less on the electric motor. In other words, the car became more like a traditional gas-powered vehicle with an electric motor and battery adding weight but not much value. The original Toyota NHW10 Prius, sold only in Japan in the late 90's, used D-cell NiMH batteries. That was totally a science experiment. Those batteries were highly unreliable, especially with regards to cell interconnections.
If you read the information at Remanufactured Hybrid Vehicle Battery Packs (ReInVolt), you will see that they are promising to supply LiOn-based replacement batteries for hybrids and the Honda Civic is their first target in the next few months. They already have a replacement battery design for the 03-05 Civic Hybrid (and the original Insight) with 30% higher capacity than the OE design (probably not LiON). They promise a LiOn, high performance HV battery designed for the Prius (Gen1 and Gen2) in 2013. I have no connection with ReInVolt other than being a satisfied customer of their re-manufactured battery in my 2004 Prius. JeffD
Reinvolt is not the first on reman(just one of the more expensive) additionally Autobeyours has replacements........
Yes, the Honda cells wold be a poor match for the Prius, as they cannot handle enough current. The cells you are looking at ar not even as good as the Honda cells. The Honda cells are not evem good enough to cope with the lower power demand of the Insight, they would fail very quicklly if you installed them in a Prius. I' be interested in someone doing it a an experiment though!
