Pack module nut installation, preferred tool?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by pasadena_commut, Oct 31, 2023.

  1. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    The nuts that secure the bus bars to the modules in the pack are supposed to be torqued to 48 in-lb. I don't have a torque wrench that goes that low. My son does, but he said he wouldn't trust it when the threaded part was anchored in plastic. (He used it to tighten small bolts which could be removed and replaced if they sheared off.)

    Looking at assembly videos, I didn't see anybody actually using a torque wrench to put these things on. They either go on with some type of small electric driver, or manually with tools that were either screw driver shaped or were 1/4" ratchet drives. Doesn't seem like there is a lot of careful torque application going on, instead "it feels right" seems to be the rule.

    Not so useful though if one doesn't have enough experience to know what "feels right" is.

    What is your preferred tool for putting these nuts on?

    How is the "correct" torque being applied with that tool without an explicit torque determination?

    I'm guessing for the hand tools it is something like "finger tight and then 1/8 of a turn more", but again, I don't know the magic incantation. For electric drivers maybe there is a torque limit that can be preset?
     
  2. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Thanks to a friend with a really old Sears Craftsmen mini torque wrench I was able to establish that the lowest possible clutch setting on my screwdriver gun was equal to 48-inch pounds. Not sure those clutch settings are the same with all screwdriver guns, but that was an easy way to do it for me.
     
  3. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    Does this screwdriver gun shut off when it hits the proper torque, or does it keep trying and make a sort of small machine gun sound? My understanding is that the former are "safe" (assuming their calibration is still correct) whereas the others keep hammering at the fastener, albeit not very hard, and can over torque a fastener.

    The shutoff ones can get very pricey:

    https://www.expressassembly.com/product-category/electric-torque-screwdrivers/premium-brushless-screwdrivers/inline-high-torque/

    Less expensive electric screwdrivers tend to have warnings rather than shutoffs. This one (ack, link won't post, go to Amazon and search for "B09YTS1Y6C"):

    has flashing lights and a buzzer, but it looks like the user still has to shut it off at just the right time to avoid applying too much torque.

    The Wheeler Manual Accurizing Torque Wrench (Amazon, B0012AXR4S) has good reviews. It is basically a clicker torque wrench in a fat screwdriver configuration.

    On the other hand, if a particular type of fastener has a hard and fast rule like "finger tighten and then 1/8 turn more" to get to the right torque every time, that is intrinsically safer than using any sort of torque controlled driver.
     
    #3 pasadena_commut, Oct 31, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2023
  4. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    It's a clutch... It slips and won't tighten more when it reaches the designated Torque... It's a cheap Harbor Freight Screwdriver gun I bought for $50 about 8 years ago.

    And while it is true you can't tighten torque by feel on larger torque settings. It's not that hard to do accurately on torque settings so low, especially because I've done it so many times working on packs for 5 years.
     
  5. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    My buddy who was in millwright for RJ Reynolds tobacco company who likes to build batteries as a hobby go figure He uses a Milwaukee 1/4-in drive impact gun like I screw in deck screws with and use a yellow gun versus his red I'm not sure what he has it set on to do the nuts I'll check tonight but that's what he uses me personally I couldn't trust that there's no way in the world I have to do these by hand not necessarily with a torque wrench but by hand I have to feel the nut squeeze to the copper or silver metal bus bar and that's it I could not trust some electric gun blasting that thing down I know I should be able to but I don't think so and I don't do these very often to be even worrying about any of it. When you're screwing something on to a metal stud that's manufactured into cheap Asian plastic so on and so forth I just don't think I'd personally want to risk it then you're all together and ripping the mess out for one slip yuck.
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Get a 1/4” drive torque wrench, decent quality Chinese? They’re not bad quality.

    You can crude test them: clamp horizontally in a vice, dangle a dumbbell or what have you at a measured distance from fulcrum with it set accordingly; it should just click.

    Verify the weight with a digital scale too; cheap dumbbell weight may not be that accurate.
     
    #6 Mendel Leisk, Nov 1, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2023
  7. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    Would somebody who builds packs be interested in doing a simple experiment?

    1. Put 10 clean nuts onto studs, through clean bus bars, finger tight.
    2. Mark the top of each nut with a marker (like a clock at 12:00)
    3. Torque the 10 nuts to 48 in-lb (or drill or whatever, but note method)
    4. Report the final angles of the 10 marks (if it rotates more than 360 degrees add those in too.)

    My guess is that the distribution of angles should be pretty tight around some angle, since the geometry of the threads is the same in all cases and the contact surfaces are very similar. I would expect more variation if the bars and nuts are not perfectly clean, as the gunk on the surfaces will change the required torque. Unlikely, but if the plastic in the modules varies a bit in compressibility then that too would increase the observed variation.
     
  8. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    On the space station during space walks when they put in bolts they have employees watching the video on the ground who's primary job as they work is to count rotations of the tool spinning the bolt and the person using the tool is told multiple times the number of rotations to get the proper torque. So you got a whole team of people ensuring proper torque based on exact rotations, as well as likely variability.

    I once used this method by putting some tape on the chuck of my cordless drill to remove a headlight adjustment bolt when removing and reinstalling a replacement ballast in a Gen2 Prius headlight and no complaints from the car owner about headlight issues. The cheap after market replacement headlights on the other hand are quite the opposite and I won't bother you with how many complaints about the beams pointing in the wrong direction.
     
  9. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    A moderately strong person can achieve 48 inch- pounds with a screw or nut driver by hand.

    A ratchet or power tool might be "good enough", unless it's not. I prefer a decent quality torque wrench for the battery pack connections.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I got one of these (attached) a few years back; did a rough test (per post #6) and it seems accurate, working well. $44 CDN currently, think I got it on sale for around $39.
     

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  11. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    A super short stubby socket wrench is what I use to double-check all the bolts after I use the clutch on the lowest setting of my screwdriver gun. Double-checking is essential because you can heat up the pack real quick if you forget to put on a bolt or don't get it tight enough. Once you do it enough times with a stuby socket your wrist will know what 3-4 ft. lbs. feels like.

    Also on Project Lithium packs they use higher conducting terminal bolts that are not as strong and this advancement in their design has led to a people snapping them when they over-tighten them. Fortunately their packs are designed to be easy to repair so you just swap out the terminal with a little bit of soldering.