I am not affiliated with them, but I thought this is a very good deal. You can probably talk them down into the low to mid 300s shipped. 4 Used 17x7 5-100 Scion OE Wheels/Rims: eBay Motors (item 320562998458 end time Jul-27-10 11:00:26 PDT) The TC wheels fit perfect and looks great on the Prius
I used to have TC rims on my '08 and they look gorgeous and improve handling/ stability but they are very heavy and affect acceleration and fuel economy (6-7mpg in my case).
If you say so, you do know a 2-4lbs at the wheels are no different than carrying a person in the car right? If anything, tires have more to do with it. Even that, the difference is marginal.
It's even less. Worst case, adding 1 lb to a wheel/tire combo has the same effect on acceleration as adding two pounds inside the car.
while this statement would be true for some people, it doesn't really apply in this case.... a stock 15" prius wheel alone is @15lbs, the TC's are @22lbs stock prius tires are @20lbs, stock tc's are @24lbs it looks like we all understand unsprung weight and rotational mass etc etc, so i wont go into it, but even estimating total wheel/tire weight shows that theres @10lbs of unsprung weight per wheel....thats significant by any standard, and most definitely will negatively effect the braking distance, acceleration, and overall mpg of a lower hp car like our Gen3's. basically, you don't need to be a car enthusiast to feel that drag. the real question is, how much does the owner/driver care about those tradeoffs. im sure many wouldn't think twice since its cost effective and looks good which is why cossie's statement could be true.... the arguable part is saying that the difference between TC wheels and stock Prius wheels is "marginal"
i have tc rims on my genII people who post there is no difference have obviously not been on this forum long enough. i get high 30's.. at times i get around 40... hypermiling gets me a little more. weight per tire always has an effect.
TC wheels are 19lbs. The 10lbs of unsprung weight is relatively immaterial. The difference is no different than carrying an extra passenger or running with a full load or empty load of gas. If you are so concerned about weight, I suggest you buy a Lotus Elise. Lastly, most of the drag comes from the tires, not the extra unsprung weight.
yawn... except now you have to rotate that extra weight from a start... then you have to slow it down. it's like saying a bike tire and a motorcycle tire are the same... i've carried passengers.. an extra 200lbs doesn't do much.. rims do. (i've carried extreme amounts of weight in my car) ever mountain bike? a human doesn't create all that much hp. the difference in a couple pounds changes how you climb/accelerate/etc... a few pounds means you don't make it to the top of that mountain..... although... carrying a few extra water bottles (about the difference in wheel weight) makes almost no difference.
... wait.. why is the OP arguing with people giving advice.. we've seen the numbers... we have nothing against rims.. sure.. they look cool. they may make you happy.. but arguing mpg numbers WE HAVE SEEN... it wasting your and our time. everyone reports a 5 to 8mpg drop. lighter rims make that number even less. at the end of a tank when you go 100 miles less than you would with stock rims... well.. it adds up over time. (i don't care if i only go 380 miles on a tank... i love the way my rims handle) i'm simply stating.. there is a difference.. and it's directly related to tire/rim weight.
Tire and Rim weight is only a small part of it, tire rolling resistance and air resistance is the bigger part. A pound added to the tire/wheel combination can have no more effect that adding 2 lbs to the sprung weight of the car. 10 lbs per tire and wheel = 40 lbs and can have no more effect on acceleration and fuel economy then 80 lbs in the car, more likely about 68 lbs. You can't just ignore tire rolling resistance and air resistance if you want to get to the real answer. Believe it or not, Newton was right.
I don't think anyone's ignoring him, we all know rolling resistance plays it's part, but many who've used LRR wheels with a heavier rim still see negative affects. You seem to be arguing that we're wrong and you're right...were arguing that were right and so are you (about drag and rolling resistance). The drag/rolling resistance argument only plays a significant roll in mpg at a cruising speed. The drag obviously means the car needs to work harder to overcome drag and maintain that speed, unsprung weight and rotational mass play a smaller roll since they're already in a constant motion. Weight has a roll here too, but not so great as when were talkng about acceleration and braking, where unsprung weight beats out drag as a major factor. No one here disputes newton, you're simply saying weight is marginal, and I'm saying it isn't.
You are right partially, but you are wrong for the most part. Modern cars have over 100ft-lb of torque, they have way more power than your bicycle. The difference is immaterial as 10lbs account for less than 1% of the car's weight. Rotating mass is also not significantly different in a car with power. Assuming you normally get 42mpg, a 6 mpg drop is 17% drop. I carried a 1000lbs trailer and I didn't get more than a 4mpg drop in fuel mileage. If you argue that there is a 1-3% drop, I can give you that. 17%? Are you kidding me? I don't know if the EPA tested both different versions of the Prius (I doubt it), but the 17" equipped Prius is still showing a window sticker of 51/49.
I'm considering putting 11lb 16" wheels + 19lb wider performance tires on my gen3 in a few weeks. This set up is wider but lighter than stock by 5lbs per wheel. If I do not experience improved mpg, acceleration, and or braking distance, I will humbly come back to this thread and let you know you were right. If, while using the new non-LRR tires, any of those numbers improve however...
Believe what you want, but every wheel would be made out of magnesium if the manufacture can pick up 16% in fuel mileage based on a 5lbs savings at the wheel. Also any benefit you get out of a different tire/wheel combo is due to a decrease in rotation mass, not unsprung weight. Lastly, you get drag from the tires no matter if you are cruising or starting and stopping. For your information, many cars are equipped with bigger wheels on a higher end model (including the Prius). Do you see people questioning why they get 16% less in fuel economy than everyone else? My 17"+summer tires weights in 6lbs more than stock each, yet my fuel mileage remains pretty much the same. If a small fluctuation of 1mpg bothers you, you might want to start pulling interior parts out to save weight.
-mag wheels are crazy costly and are irreparable once damaged. no mass manufacturer would consider them as standard on a production vehicle. its extremely unlikely but magnesium wheels are also highly flammable at +500 degrees. the lawsuits would be devastating should a carfire or accident ignite a wheel. -I'll be fair and i have no pride in posting my findings even if they contradict my belief. -lastly, im not sure how you're reading this but no one said or is saying drag-doesn't-matter. all i've said is that weight does matter more than a marginal amount with upsized rims. weight translates to higher rotational mass as well, given that both stock and TC's are the same material, where the TC is both larger in diameter and heavier. like i said, i'll post my results, and we'll all be the better for another set of data to talk about
I am sure they will consider it if they can pick up 16% in fuel mileage according to your theory. It would pull many cars out of the gas guzzler territory too. I am not saying you are completely wrong about heavier wheel/tire hurts acceleration/handling/fuel economy, but the difference should be less than 2%, not 16%. I own 4 cars and all of them have either bigger wheels/sport package/big brakes on it, I can tell you they didn't lose much over their regular counterpart
That is because they don't test every model option. According to Toyota's records, the 17" stock Prius wheel achieved 4mpg less than the 15" wheel. According to anecdotal information, the Scion TC wheels coupled with your average performance tire will reduce MPG by 3-6mpg. This is consistent with my experience with lightweight 17" wheels and a ultra high performance tire.
nice, where are they getting 70mpg from? i can put the car in cruise at 75mph and i still wont hit 50mpg.
I assume they were in Japan for testing and there are not a lot of places where 75mph is a prudent speed. lol Staying under 55mph can net you some serious MPG numbers.
