The Butterfly Effect

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by Stev0, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Well the problem is obvious . . . we must teach them to read:
    These illiterate fauna, flora, and the flagella critters are not paying attention to the hoax conspiracy advocates. The alternate hypothesis: Lysenko was right . . .

    Bob Wilson
     
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  3. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Butterflies changing habitat based on climate change is not anything new, it seems they may have migrated north from asia to a warm bering strait, then migrated south to the US from a chilling earth millions of years ago.:)
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/01/science/01butterfly.html?pagewanted=all


    A better indications of warmer recent temperatures are thermometers, not butterflies, science should never take a proxy when a direct measurement can be made. Butterfly migration can be a proxy for older climate change, but other proxies are better.


    The butterfly effect is about dependence on initial conditions not butterflies per se. A butterfly flapping its wings can change the initial conditions that might change where a tornado hits or its severity or even if it occurs:) Did burning that natural gas to cook your dinner, move the blizzard north 100 meters, and prevent a car from colliding? That would be a proper use of a butterfly effect and climate change.
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I happen to like critter and fauna proxies but you have some, alterrnates, I would be interested.

    Bob Wilson
     
  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Its the thermometers if we are talking the post 1850 temperature records in north america. It always amazes me that people try to prove we are warming by a proxy like sea level or critters when we have thermometers. I do like the butterfly dna confirmation that certain species that like warm weather made it from asia through a warm Bering strait millions of years ago, and moved south as temperatures cooled. We have some similar dna evidnce in antartica that there was a big melt there during the last interglacial from sea creatures that crossed at that time and then were separated physically and genetically by the ice as blocked the sea.

    Even in the last 150 years, marine carbonates and plankton help us reconstruct sea temperature and sea level.
     
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I'm all for thermometers but was wondering what other proxies might exist. But I read an interesting article in the news that applies to this thought:
    Source: Climate change threat more real to those with perceived personal experience: study

    Whether or not personal experience has anything to do with disciplined scientific observations, the personal also gets a vote. Good, bad, or ugly, it is common to our species.

    Bob Wilson