The Clean Energy Scam

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by Rae Vynn, Mar 31, 2008.

  1. Rae Vynn

    Rae Vynn Artist In Residence

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    The clean energy scam - Time Magazine

    The entire article is sobering, and, for me, not terribly surprising.
    Please read the article before slamming it, okay? Thanks :)
     
  2. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    I believe it. It isn't magic that "biofuels" can substitute fossil fuels, with no impact on other systems. Consider the price of wheat and corn here in North America.

    It's simplistic and insulting when folks like Lutz proudly display their ethanol pickups and brag about being more environmentally responsible than folks who drive a Prius

    Much like the hydrogen thing. Yeah, makes sense to me that we take natural gas and reform it - steam methane reforming - into hydrogen

    In the end, I still feel that only price will "correct" the situation. Gasoline will soon become so expensive that the days of $3/gallon will be called "cheap" gas

    Of course, there are those out there who claim that the commie faggot enviro hippies want to take away their black smoke gushing 4x4 turbodiesel pickups and giant bling suv's. Nope, that's the furthest thing from the truth

    A person has just as much "right" to buy a Prius as an Escalade. A person also has the "right" to pay for their choice at the pump,

    Whining, moaning, and using their paranoia to make up imaginary enemies is not allowed
     
  3. chogan2

    chogan2 Senior Member

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    Incredibly depressing and worth reading in its entirety. Thank you for posting this. We may end up killing off most of our own species. But subsidizing the means of destruction is beyond ignorant.
     
  4. JSH

    JSH Senior Member

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    OK I read it all and find it to be incredible one-sided. It makes no mention of the number one use of grain. (Corn, Soy Beans, Wheat, Barley, etc) The number one use of grain is to feed livestock. It takes 8 calories of corn to produce 1 calorie of beef. So if we were to eat no meat we could feed people on 12.5% of the land currently used. The best thing you can do to reduce global CO2 emissions and fight world hunger is eat dramatically less meat.

    The article also mentions the increase growth of soy beans in Brazil but makes no mention that in the last decade Brazil has become the number one beef producer in the world. The US used to be number on but with Japanese and European's banning the importing of US beef after the limited outbreak of Mad-Cow disease, US exports have fallen off and have been replaced by Brazilian exports. The majority of those new soy bean acres are not being used for biofuels but instead for cattle feed.

    The article also doesn't mention that we use ethanol is a horrible inefficient way. Ethanol should be used in small high-compression engines. Small turbocharged engines are perfect for ethanol use. If used in this way, SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) research shows that ethanol powered vehicles make more power and get better fuel mileage than gasoline vehicles even with the lower energy content of ethanol. You will notice that this is not how ethanol is used in the US. In the US, ethanol is used to increase the CAFE results for large trucks and SUV's. These vehicles use larger, low-compression engines that generate less horsepower and lower fuel economy.

    To sum things up, biofuels are not inherently bad. The technology is sound but is being implemented in a incredibly inefficient way. The world's politicians are subsidizing large special interest groups instead of using the technology to help their people.
     
  5. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

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    What surprises me most is that this surprises anybody.

    We don't tend to put our effort toward the product that makes the most sense. We put that effort toward the product that makes the most money. Does anybody wonder why we're still using oil? Is gasoline the best way to take little Suzie to soccer practice? Nope. But it is the most profitable.
     
  6. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    This is one side of the issue that people rarely look at. Ultimately we want our beef and eat it too. :( Looks what is happening in any country that gains in affluence. They eat more meat. Who is going to feed the newly affluent Chinese?
     
  7. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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  8. chogan2

    chogan2 Senior Member

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    I'd differ on the details, but that's pretty much my take on it too. We're doing this because most people are unwilling to pay modestly higher energy prices and/or take reasonable steps to curb energy use.

    I was in the office building of the Maryland House of Representatives the other day. The hearing room was entirely lit with incandescent bulbs. I couldn't believe it. I guesstimated 15,000 watts (240 60 watt bulbs) to light one modestly-sized hearing room. Nobody else I talked to even noticed it.
     
  9. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    The biggest problem is that it's just not on so many peoples' radar. I agree, it's ridiculous. Simply adding some sky lights would probably dramtactically reduce the usage. People would probably be interested if you pointed it out. They'd save a lot of money in a pretty short time. They just need to become aware. $5.00 gallon fuel isn't too far off it would seem. maybe we'll get there pretty soon one way or another. The world will be a better place when we replace fossil fuels with affordable, local, renewables.