what is entropy?

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by vvillovv, May 6, 2025 at 11:20 AM.

  1. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    There is at least one priuschat member that while discussing heat pump efficiency directed me to take a introductory course in thermodynamics to understand entropy.
    I'd made a comment that "I don't like using scientific terms like entropy" due to the many ways and means they can and are interpreted, besides and more importantly, believed by some members that they are well understood.

    Below is a 30 minute piece involving chaos theory in the first 4 minutes, than branches out into

    4 19 intriguing question - entropy
    4 50 time moves only forward
    12 28 beginning of time (( ! ! ! ))
    13 40 the arrow of time moves forward ( classic ) !
    14 50 why doesn't time move backwards ( quanta )
    14 50 entropy changes time itself ( sorry, I missed that one altogether )
    22 50 chapter 2: entropy of life on earth ( a couple of seconds to catch one breath )
    25 08 entropy influences time ( missed this one too )
    25 38 Hawking's radiation (and end end of time [ at least time moving forward ] )
    26 55 paradox of entropy
    28 50 entropy order-disorder ( measurement )
    29 55 create order amend the chaos of entropy (the end of the video )

    youtu.be/6FUs-vfOSlk
    The Most Devastating Reality in Physics - It’s More Dangerous Than You Think

    see why I don't like using scientific terms online, yet ?
     
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Hopefully works:

     
    #2 Mendel Leisk, May 6, 2025 at 11:31 AM
    Last edited: May 6, 2025 at 11:39 AM
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Just listening to the audio helps for me.
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    is this about heat pumps?
     
  5. RRxing

    RRxing Senior Member

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    Basically, entropy means that everything moves from order to disorder. Everything falls apart.
     
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    In my Sisyphus war against entropy, I try to get every erg I can before losing to the great background radiation.

    Bob Wilson.
     
  7. asjoseph

    asjoseph Samuel, '04 Ruthiemobile

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    .... 1st derivative of chaos (e.g., delta chaos) is entropy. At zero Kelvin, by definition, there is zero entropy:

    Chaos theory - Wikipedia

    Pattern recognition, very human quality, we all inevitably succumb to it -


    Samuel, '04 Ruthiemoboile
     
  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Walking the dog this morning, there's a path across a private lawn (between two apartment complexes), that everyone uses as a shortcut. There's a sensible, roughly foot-wide bath along one edge, worn by countless footsteps. I stuck to that path, as do most.

    Thinking about this thread, it seems to be an opposite case, going from disorder to order: when that lawn was first established I'd suspect people walked willy nilly across it. Then gradually a consensus formed, and the narrow pathway was established.

    Of course our dog is off, ranging this way and that on the grass, on his telescoping leash.

    A similar example: when you do something for the first time, create a particular meal, a picture frame, change the oil, whatever. You tend to be scattered, have missteps, misplace things. Next time you start to smooth it out, and overtime you establish a protocol, it becomes second nature.
     
    #8 Mendel Leisk, May 6, 2025 at 2:18 PM
    Last edited: May 6, 2025 at 2:24 PM
  9. asjoseph

    asjoseph Samuel, '04 Ruthiemobile

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    ... gold standard for chaos theory in quantitative economics, Ragnar Fritch's rocking horse model:

    FLUCTUATIONS AND GROWTH IN RAGNAR FRISCH’S ROCKING HORSE MODEL | Journal of the History of Economic Thought | Cambridge Core

    From which we differentiate between impulse and propagation, causality can only be 5 things:

    1). drift (e.g., trend) -
    2). cyclicality -
    3). periodicity -
    4). a structural break from the continuum (e.g., jump pulse) -
    5). a white noise component (e.g., multi-collinearity; heteroscedasticity; serial correlation) -

    Rule of thumb evaluating causality, evaluate kurtosis indicative of your stochastics (e.g., leptokurtosis; mesokurtosis; platokurtosis). Not all standard normal curves are created equal.

    Rudimentary pattern recognition, a function of simple environmental reasoning, nine times out of ten what's prompted the stat request was, a guy playing a hunch chasing noise -


    Samuel, '04 Ruthiemobile -


    /////////////////////
     
    #9 asjoseph, May 6, 2025 at 2:31 PM
    Last edited: May 6, 2025 at 3:44 PM
  10. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    While entropy is a good way of explaining how some things we can comprehend wind down into non-existence, there's so many harder to understand systems, especially information accumulation (black holes) and consciousness itself (ability to perceive/observe reality).

    I especially like the idea that black holes store all the information ever experienced/recorded by matter (event horizon effects / Hawking radiation) as well as the idea that the known universe may just be us experiencing reality after our entire universe got sucked into a black hole, as in the Schwarzschild cosmology, which suggests our universe is expanding within a black hole in a larger, parent universe.

    Entropy doesn't seem to be a defining rule when you start talking about reality on this kind of level. Similarly, if your body dies and you see it happen and realize you're still conscious and your awareness exists beyond your body, that's not the kind of entropy we thought explained the universe.

    Black hole information paradox - Wikipedia
    https://sites.imsa.edu/hadron/2021/11/07/schwarzschild-cosmology-and-black-hole-ception/
     
  11. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Before I drift through an event, I wanted to say I wondered where you were this last week or two and thought about you and your contributions as I spun my OP. Not that it describes me, just wondering after all.
    I'll try to tackle and offer my thoughts eventually, as I walk my path, (alone).

    Not much else to say here ATM @ ;)
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    and the earth will roll up like a scroll?
     
  13. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Seeing as a black hole is the equivalent of collapsing our relatively small 865,000 mile diameter sun into an object that is 6.6 miles in diameter, I don't think the slightly less than 8,000 mile diameter earth is relevant in size to a scroll if compressed down? But rather .06 miles, a wee bit more than 300 feet in diameter, so roughly a large library worth of scrolls. :)
     
  14. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    They should have told you to take an introductory course in economics.
    Heat Pumps 'may' suck less in NY but in some parts of the country they're a 'less than ideal' solution.
     
  15. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    if I could only understand all the variables state wide !!

    much less, all the human conditions