5 Automakers Stand Behind 54.5 MPG Fuel Standard

Other loopholes: fuelflex, biodiesel. There is no doubt the whole fleet will be E85 compatible. And any modern diesel is bio-diesel compatible.

When you count your chickens at the end of the day the EPA MPG equivalent will be ~30, give or take.

 

What I could become enthustiac about is a 54.5 mpg EPA standard. I am weary of politicians "pounding their chest" claiming achievement .... when it is all a "slight of hand" in the details.

Will not the vast majority of the driving public THINK the standard is 54.5 mpg EPA ...... and they will walk away feeling deceived. Why 2 standards anyway? You could just as easily have one CAFE (EPA) standard .... where the corporate fleet much achieve a specified efficiency. That would enable manufacturers to make a few gas-guzzlers (like the Suburbans the goverment buys) and a majority of fuel efficient vehicles for the less fortunate.

BTW ... todays headlines read the government will announce new standards for heavy trucks and busses ... effective 2018. I assume that will be CAFE as well??

 

They both started as one back in 70s. CAFE is using no-frills bench tests and the EPA uses some convoluted formula to estimate real life usage. I guess the argument for CAFE is that there is no room for misinterpretation (and litigation), and for EPA # that it represents real life.

There are some reasons we wanna have them apart, for example the EPA takes into consideration A/C usage.. If CAFE did too mfg would stop putting A/Cs in, do we want that?

 

I appreicate your explanation ... this is not a retort.

But ... if a manufacturer want to sell a vehicle ... it must have A/C. As you say, no one would buy one without A/C. I well recall installing a Frigaking (after market) A/C in my 1962 VW bug. What a total disaster!!

 

EPA is a rubber yardstick, trying to follow the public's changing (and increasingly fuel-hoggish) driving style. This makes it extremely difficult to use as a fixed reference for legally binding requirements.

 

Thank you fuzzy1 - I like the comment "EPA is a ribber yardstick." I suppose that make CAFE ... what? maybe a whiff of smoke?

Does it seem that everything the government states us deceptive, misleading, political .... and the most frightening part is these people write the rules that dictate our lives.

Consumer Report seems to be able to cut through the crap, and publish a fuel figure that is reliable, realistic, understood, and median ... some do better, some not as well. Oh, and does not cost a fraction of the EPA empire.

 

I actually like the EPA mileages -- the pre-2008 version -- better than the CU figures. But my right foot is lighter than those of most other drivers, and hasn't participated in the national trend of getting heavier every year.

 

Actually CAFE is very much written in stone. They are using a fixed test procedure on calibrated and standardized equipment, in standardized conditions (temperature, humidity, etc).

While the discrepancy btw CAFE, EPA, etc looks like deception, it is nothing like that at all. CAFE testing procedure was engineered to provide scientific reproducible result, abate not representing the real life. EPA formula which takes raw CAFE number as base was tweaked to give more realistic numbers.

There is no any politically driven government conspiracy, it is just an engineering exercise, no more no less. Kinda like the "huh? ftw, translation please!" when you read technical specs on TV or other home appliance..

Welcome to technical standards and engineering bureaucracy :welcome:

 

OK ... I'll back out of the discussion.
But still the bottom line is most of the driving public (not those informed on PC) think the government announced a 54.5 mpg standard for 2025.
I am delighted with my G3 Prius ... but what possible value is a standard that predicts what? .... 75-90 mpg (CAFE)? It is a meaningless statistic that matters only to those interested in an "engineering exercise."

 

And you wouldn't be saying the same thing if NHTSA/EPA used some complex formulas, multiple test methods, and various assumptions to arrive at the number?

Be honest.

 

BTW your/mine G3 is 69+MPG on CAFE.

You are 100% correct majority of the populus are not aware of CAFE vs EPA and need to be educated.

Another interesting fact about EPA formula. Presently it does not take into account the stop/restart systems like in some GM cars. Mazda, GM, BMW, VW were lobbying EPA to include it into formula.