Atlantic hurricane season

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Jun 5, 2016.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Rain bands about 50-60 miles west of Huntsville are spawning tornados but it is also sunset. In another hour, it will hopefully revert to just rain:
    [​IMG]

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    we're supposed to get harvey rain this weekend. won't be too soon for this drought.
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Six hours later and we're in the center of what is left of Harvey, rain and storm free. The band that came through earlier is already 60-70 miles to the East wetting down Chattanooga.

    Time to take the dogs to the squirrel park.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    At 2:45AM, I drove home to a dark neighborhood but our automatic, emergency generator had already started and house lights were on.

    Tomorrow, I'll visit our new neighbor with a long, quality extension cord and offer to let them plug-in to the 15A circuit on the generator. They have two small kids and need to understand we welcome them to the neighborhood.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Sometimes we are a bit rough on Oklahoma here in terms of fracking, governmental positions on environmental science, etc. But Sooners are very good at tempestology.

    Showed off their stuff during Harvey:

    Boomer Sooner

    Got a laugh from that article describing a helium-filled balloon as massive. Can't think of a less apt adjective for the thing.
     
  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Updated models put Irma around 22N 68W in 5 days. From there access to Gulf of Mexico would be unlikely. Coastal aggravations from Florida to New England remain possible as is recurving to open Atlantic.

    One would hope for recurving but too soon to have any confidence.
     
  7. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    First thing to do is find shelter, food, water for all those that are victims of the storm.

    Next thing would be to STOP BEING STUPID. Don't give government subsidized insurance to new development that puts itself and others at risk.
    Future Flood Control: Time To Buy And Bulldoze Houston's Most Flooded Homes
    Don't let people use insurance money or any other money to rebuild in the flood plain. Plant things that will help reduce problems.

    Even if there was no climate change, all that development would have made past floods worse.

    Yes, yell at the a&&hole developers that are stealing the governments money and putting people at risk. The developers on most of this land recently are the problem, not the anti-development folks.

    Now is not the time to point the finger of blame, but next time the developers say you are hurting jobs, give them the bill for this disaster. Ask them why the government should keep giving them free money, instead of letting the buyers sue them for all they are worth for putting their lives at risk, because the developer was so greedy that they didn't care who got hurt.

    People are suffering.
     
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  8. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    First...check

    Next...check

    Suffering...check

    If we delve into inundation/development/MONEY difficulties here, thread will be deemed political. See one for that is already over yonder. In fact, I'll throw more kindling on that fire.

    AG, have you been away? Otherwise detained?
     
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    One of the things Bill Clinton did after the Mississippi floods in the 1993 was to direct the Army Corps of Engineers to not rebuild the levies which returned a lot of farm land to flood plains: Great Flood of 1993 - Wikipedia

    The Great Mississippi and Missouri Rivers Flood of 1993 (or "Great Flood of 1993") occurred in the American Midwest, along the Mississippi and Missouri rivers and their tributaries, from April to October 1993. The flood was among the most costly and devastating to ever occur in the United States, with $15 billion in damages. The hydrographic basin affected over around 745 miles (1,199 km) in length and 435 miles (700 km) in width, totaling about 320,000 square miles (830,000 km2).[2] Within this zone, the flooded area totaled around 30,000 square miles (78,000 km2)[3] and was the worst such U.S. disaster since the Great Mississippi Flood of 1927, as measured by duration, area inundated, persons displaced, crop and property damage, and number of record river levels. In some categories, the 1993 flood even surpassed the 1927 flood, at the time the largest flood ever recorded on the Mississippi.

    The Galloway Report: https://fas.org/irp/agency/dhs/fema/sharing.pdf

    So it is ironic to read: Trump reversed flooding regulations days before Hurricane Harvey - Business Insider

    ... [regulations rjw] would have required the federal government to take into account the risk of flooding and sea-level rise as a result of climate change when constructing new infrastructure and rebuilding after disasters. ...​

    Then there is New Orleans.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Trump's reversal of Obama's Exec Order about climate/flooding may have been re-reversed. Perhaps too political for us here.
     
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  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Given the proximity, I suspect our good Prius friend @austingreen is dealing with the immediate problems of folks from Houston. I'm just glad Harvey didn't head towards Austin. I've never been there but understand they have some interesting water ways.

    I'm not terribly interested in discussing policy or climate in this thread. As I'd once posted, 'Muther Nature doesn't care a hoot about the affairs of men.'

    . . .
    But Mousie, thou are no thy-lane,
    In proving foresight may be vain:
    The best laid schemes o' Mice an' Men,
    Gang aft agley,
    An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain,
    For promis'd joy!

    Still, thou art blest, compar'd wi' me!
    The present only toucheth thee:
    But Och! I backward cast my e'e,
    On prospects drear!
    An' forward, tho' I canna see,
    I guess an' fear!

    Robert Burns, "To a Mouse" - Robert Burns Poem -"To a Mouse"
    Bob Wilson
     
    #171 bwilson4web, Sep 3, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
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  12. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Hurricane Irma models are now consistent about passing Puerto Rico to the north. Actually a surprisingly (to me) straight track without any recurvature through day 5. Might actually get past Cuba and into Gulf of Mexico where I doubt it would be welcomed.
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    unwelcome everywhere.
     
  14. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Hurricane Irma satellite imagery is widely available. If one can avoid thought of harm that will soon commence, it is a beautiful storm.

    But here instead is an unique vertical slice through this storm's winds. I added the km heights corresponding to pressure.

    vertical slice through Irma 2017.png
     
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  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    So this evening, I went to the Unisys SST site:
    [​IMG]
    (Please blow it up.)

    [​IMG]

    Based on the sea surface temperature, not looking at steering winds and pressures, I see it making landfall just south of Kennedy, pausing over Florida central, and then following the east coast ... I don't see any reason to depart at this time.

    Bob Wilson
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i pray haiti doesn't take it in the shorts again.
     
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  17. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Haiti will get rain, especially in north, which is a problem for inadequate structures. Hoping a lot that winds will not be strong there.

    Confused by post 175 - suggesting that sea-surface T is a steering force?

    I was looking at 'empty seas' in a ship tracker. Empty skies in flightradar24, except for NOAA42 trying to shake their rivets loose :eek:
     
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  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Sea surface temperature is an energy source. I may be alone in this but I see the hurricanes as naturally attracted to energy sources. Yes, high, low pressure air masses and the jet stream have the primary guidance effect but the storm itself needs energy and the primary energy source is warm water.

    What say you @wxman?

    Bob Wilson
     
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  19. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Well this could be interesting, but we are both (all) dancing while another ocean-energy transfer device 'picks' targets. This may be unseemly.

    The vertical wind view I posted @174 really struck me, in part, because vertical structure is so large compared to surface energy source.

    Steering is Deity-scale displacement of entire troposphere 'stack'. Shearing disperses upper part of that rotating tube we call eye wall.

    I'd suppose that only in a very calm atmos mass flux field, might such a rotating device attach itself to higher energy flux sources.

    Maybe, Bob perceives cyclone as a kite on a string but I suggest there is no string.
     
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  20. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I'm also unaware of such strings.

    OTOH, cyclones that skip such energy sources would tend to fizzle or fade. Those that track over such energy sources would tend to strengthen, reviving or reinvigorating otherwise fading storms. This may lead to some selection bias when cataloging past events of any given strength.
     
    #180 fuzzy1, Sep 6, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017