Bad transmission, $8,500?!?

You are right that I am (or was) getting pushed around a bit by the downtown dealership. I have decided to tow it to another (recommended) dealership, and I've asked Grossinger to put all their diagnoses in writing, and fax a draft to me. If it isn't specific enough, I will press until it is.

I'm loathe to let the downtown dealership continue to touch my car, though. The service manager didn't even know, for instance, that you can't flush the coolant out of a Prius (he initially just told me that they didn't "have the equipment to do it.")

If it isn't covered under warranty (or Toyota won't repair/replace at their expense despite it's not being under warranty), then I will indeed buy a collision car's equipment. Any guesses about how much the labor is to replace? Also, is this like a regular car and transmission problems... it'll never be good again?

Also, just out of curiosity, anyone have any guesses as to why this would happen? It just never occured to me that a car this new, with this many miles on it, could have a transmission blow. (I'm assuming, without knowing, that is IS the CVT or something in it/associated with it--like I said, I don't trust this dealership further than I can toss it.)

 

Update:

I still have not gotten the written report from the downtown dealership; hopefully I will soon.

At the recommendation of several on this site, I decided to go ahead and get Toyota, Inc. involved. I will say this: I have never been so impressed with a customer service line. They took my situation dead seriously, spent fifteen minutes hearing details, asked if they could open a file on the case to pursue it in depth, etc. (They did tell me that the "transmission"--I know, I know, that isn't a meaningful term, but whatever it is--would not be covered by the 100K warranty. It would have been covered by the 60K power train warranty. However, despite not being covered by warranty, they want to pursue the case and figure out why a car with as many miles as mine has--turns out the figure is closer to 77,500 rather than 76,500--would have the problems I had, and why the dealership did not solve, and perhaps even worsened, the problem.) I don't know what the ultimate outcome will be, and if they will live up to the excellent impression I have of them thus far, but for now, two thumbs up.

Anyway, I will keep all of those eagerly and nervously watching this thread abreast of any developments. And thank you, eternally, for such good collective advice!

 

Well, that's good to know!

I still have not heard back from Toyota's regional service technicians, who I understand are supposed to be looking at my car (they have to cover five states, so I'm told I won't hear from them until Friday.) I will let you know when I do. (In the meantime, I'm stuck without a ride!)

As I wait, I'm wondering: do any of you have any theories about *why* this system could go bad?

Also, as a straw poll, do you guys think it makes sense that the eCVT would count as a "transmission" for purposes of the 60K warranty, or should it instead be considered part of the hybrid power system, for purposes of the 100K mile warranty?

 

Mini-update:

I still haven't heard from the Toyota Corporate technicians, but I did have an extremely frustrating conversation with Grossinger's Toyota. Naturally, they will not put in writing the ridiculous things they told me before, and are now pretending that they knew all along it was the "transmission." When I asked for more specificity, given that the Prius doesn't have a transmission, Tom at Grossinger's said, "We won't know more until we take apart the transmission." I feel like I'm beating my head against the wall. I got irritated at that, and told him, "THE PRIUS DOESN'T HAVE A TRANSMISSION. PLEASE BE MORE SPECIFIC." And he said, sarcastically, "Well, Kenworthey, you obviously know something that my two technicians don't know."

Wow.

I don't care what Toyota Corporate decides to do--I'm not letting those idiots at Grossinger's within ten feet of my car.

 

There was no point in my losing my temper--you are right, I should have asked to speak with the tech directly. But the real reason I wanted the diagnosis at all, was to get it in writing, which I figured only the assistant service manager could do. And given the history of interaction with him, I know he'll never give a full accounting in writing because it's too damning of their handling of the repair (or of his own lack of knowledge of the Prius and its unique features).

Anyway, I'm still holding out the hope that Toyota will come through on this. Further research is convincing me that the most likely explanation for a failure of the PSD is a manufacturing defect--it's not possible (or at least doesn't seem possible) to trash it in the way that poor driving (or rather, shifting) habits will trash a traditional transmission. In a used car, you are buying the previous owner's bad habits, and I accept that. I'm just not convinced that this failure could be caused by bad habits...

 

For those who are still interested in the fate of my <80,000 mile, 2001 Prius's transaxle debacle, an update:

Or a nonupdate, really. Toyota Corporate got involved, and I was very relieved at how seriously they were taking it. Subsequent research and posts on this group and at the Yahoo group have convinced me there is a nontrivial possibility that the problem with my car is a broken PSD gear tooth or something. If so, the problem would be most likely a manufacturing defect, because no one has been able (or has even tried) to make a case that driving habits could damage the PSD. So it's not surprising that Toyota would be alarmed by the failure of this part. Since not many cars have reached my kind of mileage, and yet we've now heard of at least 3 cars, including mine, that have suffered this failure, perhaps Toyota is worried that there is a design flaw, or a systematic manufacturing flaw, that will lead to many of their cars failing in this way at about this many miles. And if so, that's pretty damaging to the resale value of these cars, and to the reputation of Toyotas for reliability.

But alas, I have still not heard from the regional tech who was supposed to have already looked at my car and gotten back to me absolutely, positively no later than... yesterday. Toyota Corporate is trying to figure out what is going on, but in the meantime, they've now said the earliest I will hear from them is Monday, and more likely Wednesday! And all this time without a car. My confidence in the seeming ubercompetance of Toyota Customer Service has now been rattled.

(As an aside, I finally got a written "diagnosis" from the dealership, quoting the total repair bill of $9150. Still no explanation of what they mean by an "internal transmission failure"... AND they billed my credit card for the tow back to their shop! The car failed ON THE WAY HOME from being repaired by them. I will be stopping payment on the tow.)

So I am beginning to resign myself to buying a collision eCVT, and having another dealership install it. I am reluctant to do it, as this will likely run me for both the used part and the labor at least $2000, and I worry that this is likely the beginning of a money pit. Anyone know whether or not any other bits of my car are likely now to be imperiled, from the eCVT having failed? Anyone have any guesses as to whether a collision could damage an eCVT, making a used unit a bad idea?

 

Huh--thanks xevious. That hints toward the notion that replacing the... whatever it is may not even fix the problem, if further damage is likely to have resulted from a PSD failure. I'm beginning to lean now toward not repairing this car at all, and chalking it up to "lesson learned about purchasing expensive new technologies before the bugs are worked out." I am pursuing with Toyota Corporate, but am getting less optimistic as time passes that they are going to do anything about this. In a week or so, everyone should keep tuned for the sale of a Classic Prius parts car... cheap. But I realize I need to be at least a little patient with this. Still, I get hopeful and then the dealership does something new to piss me off, or Toyota doesn't get back to me... I will give Toyota corporate one more week to come through! Perhaps all is not lost!

 

Thanks, Kyle! I hope this won't go so far as that, although Toyota Customer Care's email line, after a very polite letter from Erik, told him that if he wanted anything else from them, they "suggest" he pursue it "outside of Toyota Motor Sales USA," in other words, "So sue us!"

I definitely think it's possible that the dealer screwed up my car. On the other hand, the reason I brought it into the dealer in the first place was the red-triangle-of-death and what I thought might be a howling noise--or might be my imagination. The dealership was certainly negligent in not noticing the bad transmission--IF it was a bad transmission--BEFORE doing $650 worth of work on the car, including on the transmission. But I really would have no way of knowing whether it was their servicing that ultimately killed it, or something defective in the part itself.

But seriously, I'll hire you to testify if I have to take this the legal route. But I am really hope to avoid that--I keep thinking Toyota will step up to the plate on this.