Finding source of a little drag

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by pasadena_commut, Apr 5, 2025.

  1. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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  2. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Interesting, but I'm not sure what to do with the information. Bad link in their database? Timken repackaging genuine Koyo parts?

    I like rock auto in general, but in a situation like this where it is difficult to determine provenance and confidence, I'd skip them and use a local brick & mortar supplier.
     
  3. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    Apparently Timken is Koyo, or the other way around, at least most of the time. See this discussion:

     
  4. MAX2

    MAX2 Senior Member

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    A couple of questions.
    Are the TPMS sensors in the wheels working properly?
    Via Techstream, they allow you to see the difference in pressure and temperature readings in the tire.
    Also, via Techstream, it records the rotation speed of the wheels.
    All four wheels. The fifth wheel has the speed of the car by default.
    Was any diagnostic tool used other than a finger and forehead?

    All data recorded by diagnostic devices either confirms or refutes all thoughts.
     

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  5. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    6°F is statistically insignificant. Only a slight increase (differential) in heat after driving at any reasonable speed is the result of a TINY difference in drag.

    IMO the time and money needed to try and "find the cause" at this time exceeds any possible benefits.

    The most I would do is periodically monitor TPMS temperatures as suggested. If there is any increase then chase things.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  6. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    TPMS is working and in any case all the pressures have been checked a couple of times with a gauge. Faster and easier to get the pressures that way than hauling out a laptop and cable. This isn't a low pressure issue. The tire shop obtained 3 of the tires from one source and the last one from another. They all have the same manufacturing date. The tire on the wheel which is a little hot is probably the odd one out, because it was (a little) dirty, while the others were clean. Never heard of a tire which runs hot at normal pressures though, but I suppose it's possible.

    6F between tires may not be functionally significant but it is statistically significant. That is many standard deviations from the mean of the other three temperatures. Those temps were always really close, a fraction of a degree separating them, and the meter probably isn't even accurate to those small differences.
     
  7. MAX2

    MAX2 Senior Member

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    During movement, any tire heats up. This is a physical process from the friction of the tire on the road surface.
     
  8. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    Agreed. But identical tires under nearly identical conditions should heat up the same amount.

    The two front tires are each carrying very nearly the same weight, are at 35 PSI, and travel nearly identical paths, yet the one on the left is heating up more than the one on the right. The one on the right is heating up the same amount as the two on the back, and those are carrying less weight, at 33 PSI, and still traveling nearly the same paths. I can imagine a defective tire running hotter than the others, but think it more likely to be a wheel bearing or brake issue. This weekend I will try to swap the front wheels, which will either indicate a tire level problem or rule it out after the next long drive.
     
  9. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    The difference in temperature seems to be slowly going up. This past Saturday it was a full 10F between that wheel and the other. Didn't have a chance to swap the front tires until today, then took it for a 20 minute drive. It was cloudy, so no direct sun to heat up one side or the other. Measured these temps right after coming off the highway:

    location (spoke near hub) (on rotor through spokes)
    D Front 82.4 87.2
    P Front 71.6 70.8
    D Rear 70.3 NA
    P Rear 74.4 NA

    So it stays in the corner and doesn't move with the tire. It would have been really peculiar if it had.

    When the car was up on jack stands the front passenger side wheel rotated more freely than did the front driver side wheel. Odd that either would turn at all since it was in Park, but maybe that's how it works when the axles are hanging? I looked closely at the brakes and didn't see scoring or anything jammed between the shield and the brake. The pads on both sides looked about the same, both in their thickness and their position on the rotor (that is, they both seemed to be right on the rotor, but no way that I could see a tiny gap which was present on one and not the other.) I'm thinking slightly dragging brake rather than bad bearing, since the rotor was hotter than the wheel on one side, and the same or other way around on the other. Questionable logic since the hub and the rotor are bolted together.

    The 3.1 degree F difference in back suggests that maybe it is time to empty the dust out of the drums again. Or that might be just statistics - those 3 lower values have a mean of 72.1 and a std deviation of 1.71.
     
    #29 pasadena_commut, Apr 17, 2025
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2025
  10. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    The parking pawl only locks the sum of the differential.

    With both drive wheels in the air, you can always spin either because the diff will just force the other wheel to spin in the opposite direction while the input remains locked.

    This isn't a Prius thing, every 2WD differential drive system with a park-locking transmission (aka most street legal cars) works this way.
     
  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    #31 ChapmanF, Apr 18, 2025
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2025