Gas Engine Shakes at Startup

Discussion in 'Prius v Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by 12VTAO, Oct 29, 2022.

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  1. 12VTAO

    12VTAO Junior Member

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    My 2012 Prius V recently passed 100K miles.

    From the advice on the forum, I did some recommended maintenance.
    • Cleaned Intake Manifold
    • Cleaned EGR Pipe
    • Replaced the PCV Valve
    • Replaced Air Filter
    • Replaced Fuel Injectors
    • Oil Change
    The air intake manifold, EGR pipe, and fuel injectors all seemed to be relatively clean. However, about a week after I did all this, it began to shake when switching to the gas engine. It does this most aggressively after the engine has cooled down.

    Here is a video of the sound:



    The check engine light came on and it gave me P0300 (random cylinder misfire) when I ran the codes. After this I replaced the all the spark plugs and checked the ignition coils with a multimeter (they seemed to be working).

    I also remembered that when I filled the oil, I added 5 quarts instead of 4.4 quarts. So, I drained and changed the oil again. When I drained the oil, it was a translucent amber color and did not contain any contaminants.

    After running a bit with the new oil, the check engine light has turned off but the engine still shakes on startup.

    I used a combustion leak detector as well, and the fluid did not change color at all.

    I'm wondering what I need to do from here. What is the next diagnostic I should run and what could be causing this?
     
    #1 12VTAO, Oct 29, 2022
  2. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Most likely a head gasket. I know, I know, oil is good and combustion gasses not in coolant. Borescope it.
     
    #2 rjparker, Oct 29, 2022
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  3. 12VTAO

    12VTAO Junior Member

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    I checked all the cylinders with a borescope. Cylinders 1,3, and 4 all looked similar. They had a dark residue and looked slightly wet. Cylinder 2 was, however, very dry with little residue. I tried to see if I could find any leaking in the cylinders while the cooling system was under pressure, but the borescope I was using didn't offer a very detailed picture of the sides.

    I assume, at this point, there is a leak in the head gasket. Before I go about disassembling the engine to replace the head gasket, are there any more tests I can do to understand the extent of the damage? How would I discern whether I would need to replace the entire engine or just the head gasket?
     
    #3 12VTAO, Oct 30, 2022
  4. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    You may be observing a steam cleaned #2 cylinder. Has the coolant reservoir on the passenger side dropped at all in the last few months?

    Generally rapid coolant loss combined with white smoke is a more advanced hg leak. Usually the gasket vs engine decision is made after pulling the head and checking for warpage or signs of bent connecting rods. Unless its burning a lot of oil. Then its pull the engine and replace or rebuild.

    Before I did anything I would have a good hybrid shop or the dealer diagnose. First thing to ask is have they seen this issue in a gen3 engine. The right answer is "lots of them" or equivalent.
     
    #4 rjparker, Oct 30, 2022
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  5. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Senior Member

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    And another junk toy engine goes down......................................... only car I've had with a blown head gasket...... but people on here will tell you there's is perfect with 51,000 trouble free miles......... over 100,000 miles and BEWARE................... especially 150,000 when most toyotas are just breaking in....this junker blows the head gasket...........
     
    #5 Tim Jones, Oct 31, 2022
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  6. PatrickBrian

    PatrickBrian Junior Member

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    How do the plugs look? Here's a picture of a two month old plug. And in that two months, I've gone from bad to terrible, so don't put it off. I would stop driving it now. I did the coolant test, same as you, and had the same result. IMO, that test is like taking a test for COVID, and we both got false negatives. The second image is the intake under the throttle body. When I cleaned it a few weeks ago, there was oil residue. I tried to limp it along until I could figure out what to do. Now look at it in just a few weeks. Again, IMO, you should stop driving it now and get it repaired. PXL_20221025_221830738.MP~2.jpg PXL_20221031_215157656.jpg
     
    #6 PatrickBrian, Oct 31, 2022
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  7. 12VTAO

    12VTAO Junior Member

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    I haven't noticed any leaking in the cooling system yet, the spark plugs were clean when I pulled them, and there's no white smoke on startup. I'm still assuming that it's a head gasket, but hopefully I've caught it early on and the damage hasn't warped the head or bent the connecting rods.

    I've probably driven only five miles since I first noticed the issue, since then it's been parked. Luckily, I don't need to drive it until I can fix the issue.

    I'm going to attempt to replace the head gasket this weekend. It's not a repair I've done, but I feel relatively confident under the hood and there are some very in depth tutorials on YouTube.
     
    #7 12VTAO, Oct 31, 2022
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  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Leak-down test.
     
    #8 Mendel Leisk, Nov 1, 2022
  9. 12VTAO

    12VTAO Junior Member

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    I wanted to circle back here with an update.

    I finished the head gasket replacement. It was a bear.

    Since then, I've put about 500 miles on the car and seems to be doing well.

    It hasn't inspired much confidence in my car (or the brand) though. Even with a new head gasket, I haven't solved the underlying problem in the engine that caused it.

    I've been looking for the reason that these Gen 3 engines are prone to head gasket failure. It seems like there's a lot of conjecture without a ton of evidence. I know there's a whole lot of collective knowledge in this forum, so maybe I just haven't found the right thread. I'd appreciate it if anyone could point me to some further reading on this.

    I'm hoping that this repair will last me at least another year. Hopefully, the used car market will cool down by then and I can buy a reasonably priced Honda that will end up disappointing me as well...
     
    #9 12VTAO, Nov 23, 2022
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  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    sorry, just a lot of conjecture, with various opinions. we know there's an egr problem, and a pston/ring problem
     
    #10 bisco, Nov 23, 2022
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  11. CR94

    CR94 Senior Member

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    ... and probably a thermal gradient problem. All those issues were addressed in later editions.
     
    #11 CR94, Nov 23, 2022
  12. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Senior Member

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    #12 Tim Jones, Nov 24, 2022
  13. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    If it goes again, go the rebuilt engine route from a source with a guarantee. Change the pistons and rings for those Toyota now recommends for your car, get a thoroughly rebuilt head and a new intake. Problem solved.
     
    #13 rjparker, Nov 24, 2022
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  14. PatrickBrian

    PatrickBrian Junior Member

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    I would also recommend an oil catch can and EGR cooler maintenance.
     
    #14 PatrickBrian, Nov 24, 2022
  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Why a new intake; they’re relatively easy to access and maintain. Due to EGR passage revision?

    I’m not sure Toyota’s on record as to what they revised, but what else could it be. And not sure that rev did much.
     
    #15 Mendel Leisk, Nov 24, 2022
  16. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    I just watched this video earlier today. It helps explain why hybrid head gaskets fail more than on non hybrids.

    Gasket Masters in San Fran "This is why your Prius --- " youtu.be/gCIm4vndMrk expands to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCIm4vndMrk

    in my browser the next youtube is Gasket Masters doing a head gasket on a taxi outside in the taxi yard.
    youtu.be/jxjIzhpwW78 expands out to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxjIzhpwW78

    If you like what they have to show and say - they have a ton more prius to browse
     
    #16 vvillovv, Nov 24, 2022
  17. Led

    Led Junior Member

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    Best explanation I’ve heard for the root cause of HG failure. Who knows if it’s correct.
     
    #17 Led, Nov 30, 2022
  18. Air_Boss

    Air_Boss Senior Member

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    It's an explanation, but that said, aluminum heads on iron and aluminum blocks with steel head bolts have been around for years without the same outcomes.
     
    #18 Air_Boss, Dec 1, 2022
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  19. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    So…. Did you run the hotter spark plugs as prescribed by updated parts lists at Toyota parts departments? (Is this the darn reason?). I’m not gonna if we reach time to replace them in my lifetime….


    iPhone ?
     
    #19 jzchen, Dec 1, 2022
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I’m just running on the hotter Denso’s, put in 3~4 days back. Seem fine. First run just now, to dentist. What else is new…
     
    #20 Mendel Leisk, Dec 1, 2022
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