<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 11 2006, 09:01 AM) [snapback]317652[/snapback]</div> If I might add one more "may" May we we all educate ourselves about what really happened on September 11, 2001 instead of simply accepting what the media told us happened. A good start would be to read 9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in USA by Webster Griffin Tarpley. This, more than anything else, would show respect for the victims of that day.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ Oct 30 2006, 03:15 PM) [snapback]340801[/snapback]</div> I am not sure that if there is no God that that makes me a liar for believing in one. Furthermore, whether there is or is not, should not give you license to belittle my beliefs in one.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct, 03:19 PM) [snapback]340805[/snapback]</div> Ha ha that's funny. I'm not accusing you of being a liar for believing in God, silly. It's the dbermanmd LIE list that I know you are familiar with. If you want I can post it here. I'll even update it with today's new dbermanmd lie.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Oct 30 2006, 03:18 PM) [snapback]340804[/snapback]</div> NO you may not add your drivel to the deaths of my friends, neighbors, and patients. Save your self-serving bu** sh** for some other post. Maybe you can comfort those who lost loved ones in your own way - show them how to respect those who did this to them because they went to work one day to better their lives and those of their loved ones. Funny, so many of those I know only want this not to happen again, and want a lot of payback. Too bad you were not there to hear the sounds a skull makes when it explodes against the ground from 1/4 mile high. How dare you interject your BS here. This sickens me... So NO you cannot add your $0.01. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ Oct 30 2006, 03:22 PM) [snapback]340809[/snapback]</div> You are in need of help. You choose to demean me and belittle me because I believe in God - that is your choice. If you want to add it to your "list of my lies", go for it. It speaks volumes about you - enough to tell all who and what you are. Keep posting it. It makes you your own worst enemy. Hate destroys those who harbor it.
A thead like this appeared just after 9/11. That thread was totally ruined when a debate started on belief/disbelief in God among the members. Stating one's beliefs is one thing - insulting others does not move others to your beliefs - never in my experience. God is real to me. Each side can throw a question that will stump the other, so it's a matter of faith either way. Guess it's just better to agree to disagree on these matters. I'm breaking my personal code of treading lightly in religion and politics....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 30 2006, 03:15 PM) [snapback]340799[/snapback]</div> You're right; there is a God. Where do I go to enlist for the armed services? Does anyone have any cheap imported crap from KMart that I can consume with reckless abandon? Now if we can only "modernize" the Iraqi thinking patterns...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alric @ Oct 30 2006, 04:43 PM) [snapback]340886[/snapback]</div> ROFL :lol: :lol:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Oct 30 2006, 03:39 PM) [snapback]340817[/snapback]</div> I agree with Delta. Whether you believe in God or not, insulting someone for having the opposite belief is childish. And it doesn't matter which side of the argument you're on. If you believe in God, great. If you don't, great. Personally, do not have the faith other people have. But I don't necessarily disbelieve, either. Religion just isn't all that important to me and it doesn't play a large role in my life. That being said, I find some of the posts in this thread directed at Dr. Berman to be borderline personal attacks and it sickens me to see them. Especially when they come from members whose opinions I respect in other areas.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Oct 30 2006, 05:39 PM) [snapback]340928[/snapback]</div> Well said, Proco!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Oct 30 2006, 05:39 PM) [snapback]340928[/snapback]</div> I think religion has gone on long enough without being challenged. I would never personally attack Dr. Berman but any ideas, even religious ones should be open to criticism. This is one of the evolutionary advantages of the religious meme, it can not be criticized and is left to propagate freely. Cheers!
Just Released— Agenda for the Democratic National Convention for 2008: 7:00 P.M. Opening flag burning. 7:15 P.M. Pledge of allegiance to U.N. 7:30 P.M. Ted Kennedy proposes a toast 7:30 till 8:00 P.M. Nonreligious prayer and worship. Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton. 8:00 P.M. Ted Kennedy proposes a toast. 8:05 P.M. Ceremonial tree hugging. 8:15- 8:30 P.M. Gay Wedding-- Barney Frank Presiding. 8:30 P.M. Ted Kennedy proposes a toast. 8:35 P.M. Free Saddam Rally Cindy Sheehan-- Susan Sarandon. 9:00 P.M. Keynote speech. The proper etiquette for surrender-- French President Jacques Chirac 9:15 P.M. Ted Kennedy proposes a toast. 9:20 P.M. Collection to benefit Osama Bin Laden kidney transplant fund 9:30 P.M. Unveiling of plan to free freedom fighters from Guantanamo Bay. Sean Penn 9:40 P.M. Why I hate the Military, A short talk by William Jefferson Clinton 9:45 P.M. Ted Kennedy proposes a toast 9:50 P.M. Dan Rather presented Truth in Broadcasting award, presented by Michael Moore 9:55 P.M., Ted Kennedy proposes a toast 10:00 P.M. How George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld brought down the World Trade Center Towers-- Howard Dean 10:30 P.M. Nomination of Hillary Rodham Clinton by Mahmud Ahnadinejad 11:00 P.M. Ted Kennedy proposes a toast 11:05 PM. Al Gore reinvents Internet 11:15 P.M. Our Troops are War criminals-- John Kerry 11:30 P.M. Coronation Of Mrs. Rodham Clinton 12:00 A.M. Ted Kennedy proposes a toast 12:05 A.M. Bill asks Ted to drive Hillary home :lol:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NoSpam @ Oct 30 2006, 07:30 PM) [snapback]341034[/snapback]</div> And for the Republican convention... Opening ceremony Dance of the Chickenhawk ballet. Closed door workshop on how to get the rest of the money still held by what's left of the middle class Second act of the Chickenhawk ballet Series of speaches on the evels of: France, Canada, Germany, Norway, and oh yes now the UK (since Tony Blair is no longer in power) Third act of the Chickenhawk ballet Speach about how the constitution no longer applies because it's too old. Resolution to make George Bush Dictator for life And finally, deleting all historical records that preceeded Ronald Reagan.
My attacks on dbermanmd are not because of his religious beliefs. They are because of his lies. I brought it up here because I'm frankly kind of astounded that someone who presents himself as very religious has such a shameless and utter disregard for telling the truth, and I thought that was a kind of a big no-no. But not being religious, what do I know? Maybe lying is more like a "try not to do it". Or, "it's ok as long as you're defending Bush". Here's the thing. I've tried being subtle with dbermanmd, and I've tried giving him the benefit of the doubt. Today I even gave him a chance to retract a statement he made that was obviously false. But he won't do it, as I knew from experience. He can't admit when he makes a mistake. So there it goes, on the "list". dbermanmd can get me to stop posting the "list" anytime. All he has to do is admit his mistakes and retract them.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ Oct 30 2006, 08:52 PM) [snapback]341057[/snapback]</div> You continue to pre-judge. How do you know I am very religious? And you continue to conjoin politics and religion - I wonder why, but that is of minor importance at this point. I guess you do believe in an almighty - you have obviously annointed yourself in this capacity. Others see it - unfortunately you do not. Just read your second paragraph - stop and think after each sentence that you wrote -- how many first persons are in it?? Do you see a pattern developing? And your last paragraph - read that one from an outside perspective please. Continue issuing personal attacks, posting your "list of lies", whatever YOU find appropriate in your OWN judgement and sentencing. You have your rights and with them - responsibilities. I would posit you are doing more damage to yourself then to whomever you might assign to be your target of the day/week/month/year/lifetime - hate is self-destructive, all consuming, and all-revealing. Your conduct, in my opinion, is shamefull at least and possibly even greater than that. You are responsible for your own actions, thoughts and deeds - you are being judged based on your own code of ethics, morals, and conduct, continuously. If you remain content and proud of yourself than continue your course. I am sure that I am not your first target, nor will be the last. What ever constructs you employ to place others in your sights has been operating for a long time. Again, your actions are a reflection upon you and you alone. I personally find it sad that someone could conduct themselves like that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alric @ Oct 30 2006, 08:17 PM) [snapback]341029[/snapback]</div> Hell, since we're already way off the original topic (which was well said) ... Do you mean all religion needs to be challenged just because it exists? Or are you speaking specifically of religious extremism in any form? There's a huge difference. If I believe Jesus Christ is the savior and the Son of God, but I practice my faith quietly and don't try to force my views on anyone, what is there to challenge? Saying "there is no God", even in jest, to someone of faith is an insult of their faith. If you believe God doesn't exist, there are tactful & respectful ways of expressing those views. I have no problem with religious ideas being open to criticism. But there are ways to construct those criticisms and have the discussion. Dr. Berman -- who I've butted heads with before and no doubt will again-- never tried to push his religious beliefs on anyone. He read some of the posts as being critical of him for believing. Whether they were or not, that's how it was read and he responded to that. Saying things like "there is no God" or questioning whether he really believes is inappropriate and unnecessarily inflammatory. And this argument goes for the other side of the fence, too. If you have faith and truly believe, saying "you're going to Hell" to someone who doesn't believe is just as bad. As I stated earlier, faith doesn't play a part in my life. It's just not that important to me. I do, however, have a problem with insulting someone's beliefs, no matter what they are.
This is to second Proco's request to agree to disagree. In other forums, I get plenty of flak just attacking gas guzzlers, even on a non-personal level. There are number of socio-polictical issues I bite my tongue, even though I have strong convictions on some of them. I can think of some things I might say that would be fine for 95% of you, then feel compeled to say multiple times "it was not malicious - sorry to offend...." - I usually pass to avoid that pickle. It's just that some confrontations go nowhere positive. Attacking one's beliefs is one of those. At the end of the day, what good did this not so friendly discussion of beliefs accomplish?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Oct 31 2006, 09:38 AM) [snapback]341209[/snapback]</div> No good at all.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 31 2006, 11:17 AM) [snapback]341264[/snapback]</div> Agreed. It was pointless and unnecessary after a heartfelt 9/11 post.
