I ran in ev mode going 53mph

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by windstrings, Feb 11, 2006.

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  1. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    i find it hard to believe this thread is ignoring kinetic energy. if in neutral rolling down the hill, is that EV?

    well its as EV as much as coasting down a hill in drive is more inefficient than EV mode is at any speed.

    the real question that i see is

    if kinetic energy is responsible for a Prius being in stealth mode at speeds greater than 42 mph, what classification is that?

    the amount of energy it uses does not matter since it is not coming from the car. its gravity!!
     
    #41 DaveinOlyWA, Feb 11, 2006
  2. EricGo

    EricGo New Member

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    Hi Dave,

    I am not entirely sure I am following your argument.

    Forward movement of the car results in negative spin of M/G (1). At an rpm of ~ 6500, mechanisms come into play to prevent higher spin rates that can damage the motor, and that is ICE spin. Are you suggesting that forward car movement can spin the ICE ?

    If not, then ICE spin is either from fuel injection and it's burn, or possibly energy transfer from the battery.
     
    #42 EricGo, Feb 11, 2006
  3. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    yes that is what i am suggesting. there are many hills here that i have to brake to stay at a reasonable speed on the freeway. i find it hard to believe the car would be drawing electricity or gasoline when the car is essentially coasting down a hill in drive.


    what is the difference between EV and regen?

    they are not the same. what is the speed limit for regen??

    the lower limit is 8 mph. there is no upper limit and that is essentially what windstrings was experiencing
     
    #43 DaveinOlyWA, Feb 11, 2006
  4. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

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    Yea I don't know the answer, but it would seem more efficient to use some of the kinetic energy to spin the ICE so the mg1 could in turn make power to the wheels?

    You'll have to forgive me if my reasoning suffers.. I'm trying to put together all the pieces.

    It certainly would seem less effecient for the mg1 to spin the ICE and at the same time send power to the wheels.
    Of course that may be limitation that cannot be avoided..... If so, it would still be wiser to use "some" of the kinetic energy to the wheels while going over 42, even "if" some of the other is wasted spinning the ICE?

    But kinetic would be better of course.. I just don't know if it can transfer power backwards from the wheels "kinetic" to spin the ICE while at the same time accepting power from "is it MG2 or MG1?" to give power back to the wheels to maintain car speed thus effective EV momentem forward.

    I'm still piecing the MG1 and MG2 roles still.
    I'm amazed at the complexity yet simplicity of the prius!

    Its an amazing machine in so many ways.....the sprout of much bigger things!

    I'm sure if I had the CAN-View..it would all make much more sense.
     
    #44 windstrings, Feb 11, 2006
  5. hdrygas

    hdrygas New Member

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    Windstrings I have seen on the MFD what you have seen on my first drive on the car coming down off the 4the of July pass at 65 mph. I have to say that the MFD lies, or at least simplifies, what is going on with the Prius. True but not true. Some of the details have been posted here and I have to say I am not yet sure what it means, but your observation is a good one based on the data you can get. Each of us is touching the Elephant blind and telling each other what we feel. With enough of us and enough tools we will describe the Elephant.
     
    #45 hdrygas, Feb 11, 2006
  6. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

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    Ah yes.. and a big elephant it is!.....
    Since there is so much discussion about this.. I thought we better throw in the planetary gear simulation
    http://homepage.mac.com/inachan/prius/planet_e.html
     
    #46 windstrings, Feb 11, 2006
  7. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    Hi Dave, I'm back. :)

    The kinetic energy is not FREE. It was created by burning gasoline previously.
    The down hill energy or the potential energy is not FREE too. It was created by going up hill previously.

    To let the ICE spin, we need some torque.
    The torque to the ICE are supplied by MG2(72%) and MG1(28%).
    The 72:28 ratio does not change.
    Let's say the 72% of torque to spin the ICE is supplied by the kinetic energy, but we also need to supply 28% of torque from MG1, which requires some electric energy.

    Ken@Japan
     
    #47 ken1784, Feb 12, 2006
  8. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    Hi Dave, I'm back. :)

    The kinetic energy is not FREE. It was created by burning gasoline previously.
    The down hill energy or the potential energy is not FREE too. It was created by going up hill previously.

    To let the ICE spin, we need some torque.
    The torque to the ICE are supplied by MG2(72%) and MG1(28%).
    The 72:28 ratio does not change at all.
    Let's say the 72% of torque to spin the ICE is supplied by the kinetic energy, but we also need to supply 28% of torque from MG1, which requires some electric energy.

    Ken@Japan
     
    #48 ken1784, Feb 12, 2006
  9. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    You say it is EV, I'm fine.
    I don't want say it is not pure EV or pure stealth, which is the ICE is spinning, making noises and wasting energy.
    I beieve the original poster of this thread did not recognize the ICE was spinning.

    Ken@Japan
     
    #49 ken1784, Feb 12, 2006
  10. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

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    this genders another question... I know that below 8 mph the friction brakes take over instead of regen, but why does the MFD screen continue to show energy going into the battery even below 8mph until a dead stop?

    Is that deceptive? maybe they did so as to not confuse the casual layperson?
     
    #50 windstrings, Feb 12, 2006
  11. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    As many posters are writing, the MFD sometimes lies.

    Ken@Japan
     
    #51 ken1784, Feb 12, 2006
  12. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    nothing in this world is free
     
    #52 DaveinOlyWA, Feb 12, 2006
  13. The Tramp

    The Tramp Italian Prius Expert

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    the ICE is spinning all right, but it's not taking any fuel.

    What's moving the car (and spinning the engine) is elettrical energy.

    Therefore in my dictionary I'm in EV mode... ;)
     
    #53 The Tramp, Feb 12, 2006
  14. The Tramp

    The Tramp Italian Prius Expert

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    I have a scangauge and awaiting my CAN-view (stuck in customs). :angry:
     
    #54 The Tramp, Feb 12, 2006
  15. The Tramp

    The Tramp Italian Prius Expert

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    if it's only kinetic energy moving the car I get no arrows.

    even at high speeds (above your 42 mph) there is a very small gap between having green arrows (regen) and yellow arrows (EV-mode) as it is very easy to get the engine being fed.

    Today I managed in getting EV-mode af 50+ mph for many miles in a very slight downhill, but not enough to keep a conventional car at that speed in neutral: I know that road too well.
     
    #55 The Tramp, Feb 12, 2006
  16. The Tramp

    The Tramp Italian Prius Expert

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    I wish you would go on in not leaving me knowledge thirsty... ;)
     
    #56 The Tramp, Feb 12, 2006
  17. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    Would you please explain why the "EV mode switch (UK model)" has to be canceled at 30mph?
    If you could be in EV mode at any speed, it does not have to be canceled.

    Ken@Japan
     
    #57 ken1784, Feb 12, 2006
  18. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    Y'all are describing "warp stealth", one of several names for the
    condition. http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=15817 ...
    the accelerator-response "knee" gets much larger when the SOC is
    high, making it easier to hold the condition and actually push
    the car harder on battery.
    .
    Normally, it takes on the order of a kilowatt to keep the engine
    turning. No fuel is injected and pumping loss is minimized by
    having the valve timing backed all the way off.
    .
    _H*
     
    #58 hobbit, Feb 12, 2006
  19. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    Yes. We have to communicate under the same defined terms, otherwise newbies will be confusing.

    Are there any glossary and/or FAQ list on PriusChat?
    - What is the EV mode?
    - How fast can I drive in EV mode?
    - Can I drive at highway, say 55MPH, in EV mode?

    Ken@Japan
     
    #59 ken1784, Feb 12, 2006
  20. hdrygas

    hdrygas New Member

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    I agree. Let us define the terms we are using. There is a glossary here:
    http://priuschat.com/Acronyms-and-Abbrevia...ary-t13051.html

    "EV - electric vehicle, the EV button refers to getting the Prius into electric only mode via a control, bypassing the computer's control over the engine/motor." My definition of EV mode requires the use of the EV switch or button. It does not refer to ICE off conditions with or with out power transfer from batter to MG2.

    "Stealth Mode - (also "EV mode") driving the Prius on electric power only" I would like to argue that we should modify this so as not to include electric operation via EV Button. Hyper Stealth has been used to describe this behavior at speeds over 42 mph.

    I think we should work on both definitions limit EV mode to that mode entered with a EV button. The language in the definition "bypassing the computer's control over the engine/motor" is wrong it is directing the computer to suppress ICE on and just use the battery and MG2. Stealth should be edited to remove EV mode as it creates confusion quickly no one knows what anyone is talking about. Either that of finding a new name for operating the car with a EV button. Thoughts.
     
    #60 hdrygas, Feb 12, 2006
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