Is there a war on coal, and is coal winning?

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by austingreen, Jun 2, 2014.

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  1. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Sounds like old or wrong data. My data was for march and Russia and Saudi Arabia are pumping out far more than the US ever has. The US clearly has been firing oil workers and reducing new development, but as my link above shows, production has only dropped 5%.

    What wiki are you looking at? Wiki's are notorious for being crowd sourced, and slow to correct.
    At these prices and US production costs that would be foolish. They are tapping esablished wells, drilling new ones has been slowed to a crawl. Again It sounds like you are quoting something very old.
     
    #41 austingreen, Apr 8, 2016
  2. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    List of countries by oil production - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    If it's wrong, please fix it and I'll stay off your lawn. But I hope a presumption of financial wisdom is not the strongest pillar of your argument. They could screw it up and ask for bailout no? We are talking about 'to big to fail' companies. Plus, there are tax advantages for exploring and pumping, as you've said so here yourself.

    +++

    Anyway barrel prices remain low and that's a fact. If the Strategic Petroleum Reserve is not full right now, I'd like to know why...
     
    #42 tochatihu, Apr 8, 2016
  3. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    A source cited on that wikipedia page is an eia.gov report for 2014. The annual one for 2015 should be out by now, I think. Maybe the page just needs an update.

    -Chap
     
    #43 ChapmanF, Apr 9, 2016
  4. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Well what can we see from that wikipedia page.

    In 2012 according to eai oil production was
    1) Russia
    2) Saudi Arabia
    3) USA
    as it is today in 2016.

    In 2014, a very different measure biofuels (ethanol, biodiesel, etc) + oil + natural gas liquids + expansion at refineries (energy added from external elctriicity and natural gas) we get

    1) USA
    2) Saudi Arabia
    3) Russia

    Both are correct, but the second is extremely misleading if you are talking fossil fuels, as the US is only number one here because of biofuels, and at today's oil prices, will fall further behind. In 2012 russia pumped more oil than saudi arabia. In 2014 saudi more than russia, and in march 2016 russia pumped more than saudi. Saudi Arabia has more oil, but russia is pumping more at these low prices. Russia sells natural gas so this isn't really an apples to apples comparison, but one to make the US come out on top.

    Don't get fooled. If oil prices stay here between 30 and 40 /bbl the US will fall further behind. Once wells get capped. Saudi will spike the prices again, and it will take a year or two for US production to come back to 2015 levels.

    Update would be fine, but they are really showing liquid fuels in that ordering with the US on top. That includes biofuels. I believe US is still in the lead if you include biofuels, natural gas liquids, and the refinery expansion as it is there. That isn't what was asked ;-)

    If russia/Saudi/Iran come to an agreement to decrease production then it will still probably be at a level that continues to reduce american oil production.
     
    #44 austingreen, Apr 9, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2016
  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    #45 tochatihu, Apr 13, 2016
    bwilson4web likes this.
  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Peabody 'revised' some landforms in NM & AZ, were obliged to recreate biology there, and some of my research contributed to that. I have a connection. In more recent years, US has decided to move away from coal extraction. because revenue was not beating problems encountered. Let other countries take the lead in coal.

    Instead, US fossil-C extraction has emphasized 'fluids', and they are up at least as much as AustinGreen allows, and possibly even more. Externalities there have not yet there come home to roost. Maybe they won't. But I would recast 'war on coal' as something much more rational. Make as much money as possible, while also limiting costs. Coal simply does not fit that profile any more for US.
     
    #46 tochatihu, Apr 14, 2016
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: Global diesel demand crumbling, warns IEA | Daily Mail Online

    "Global gasoil demand crumbles," the Western energy watchdog said in its benchmark monthly report. Gasoil includes several different grades of fuel but diesel is the most important.

    "The end of gasoil demand growth is not yet upon us, as modest gains are forecast towards the end of the year as the underlying industrial situation improves worldwide," particularly in the United States and India, it said.

    Chinese demand for diesel slowed in recent years as the world's second-biggest economy shifted away from heavy manufacturing to be more consumer-focused. In the United States and Japan the weakening demand was linked to slower manufacturing and industrial activity and a mild winter in North America.

    Prior to 2016, "the European gasoil consumer demonstrated stolid resistance, a resolve that cracked in Q1 2016," when demand declined by 75,000 barrels per day compared to a year earlier, it said.

    The declines were led by France and Germany, which saw diesel consumption drop by 50,000 and 20,000 bpd respectively from a year earlier.

    The IEA trimmed slightly its forecast for growth in global oil demand this year to 1.2 million bpd, for total annual demand of 95.9 million bpd. (Reporting by Ron Bousso; Editing by Susan Fenton)    ​

    Hummm, 'This is not the end of diesel nor is it the beginning of the end of diesel. Perhaps, it is just the end of the beginning of diesel.' (thanks Winston Churchill)

    Bob Wilson
     
    #47 bwilson4web, Apr 14, 2016
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