Is this really the hybrid battery going bad?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Curtanu, Mar 15, 2017.

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  1. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    I guess I would first suggest checking with your local dealer to see if they will even allow you to buy one.
    Start there.
    Knowing how to to it won't help if you can't obtain one in the first place.

    Off the top of my head... I'd start by getting together basic tools and safety equipment like high voltage gloves and leather covers. A good voltmeter. 6point Socket set 8mm - 14mm. Socket extension. A torque wrench with inch pounds. A torque wrench with foot pounds. Phillips screwdriver. Flat blade screwdriver. Panel clip removal tool. Bottle brush for cleaning the fan. Torx (#30?) wrench if you are doing a gen1

    I know nothing about making videos so I won't be much help there. Could hire someone I suppose?

    I'm always willing to help by phone as much as I can.
     
    #61 ericbecky, Mar 18, 2017
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  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk MMX GEN III

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    What's the lowest inch pound value, roughly?
     
    #62 Mendel Leisk, Mar 18, 2017
  3. Chodronish

    Chodronish Member

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    I am absolutely 100% no mechanic, but this sounds so dangerous. The 12V battery in a puddle of water? A "spark" from underneath the dash?! Am I wrong? I must be since no one is commenting on this, I suppose. I can't imagine driving my Prius around with the 12V battery in a puddle and an electric zap/spark from the dashboard. I would get rid of this car. It sounds far too complicated and expensive to figure out what is wrong with it, and how many things might be wrong with it. That's a lot to invest to replace a hybrid battery in a car with the other problems (no a/c, leaking water into back area, mystery spark under dash, etc.). You would probably be able to get a much better older Prius for the cost of the battery. Good luck!
     
    #63 Chodronish, Mar 21, 2017
  4. Curtanu

    Curtanu Junior Member

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    Yeah, the spark gets lost among the other discussion, I think. But do note that the spark was separated from the puddle of water not only by about 8 feet, but also by about 10 months.
     
    #64 Curtanu, Apr 6, 2017
  5. Curtanu

    Curtanu Junior Member

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    Hey, all. I finally got the Prius back out of the local shop -- no work done on it, just delays in getting it back. I drove it just fine, 25 miles home. No lights, no errors.

    I have two more questions:

    (1) Very simple. I know that I saw a couple videos that showed some app displaying the voltage of the individual cells of the hybrid battery. I guess that was the Toyota app "Techstream". But does Torque (the Android app) also show that? I can't for the life of me find any display of it doing so. And for that matter, is there another app on the iPhone (as I don't have an Android device -- though could buy one) that displays such battery data?

    (2) Is this for real -- this Prolong Battery Charger thingy?
    Prolong Battery Systems. Extending the life of your hybrid. – Hybrid Automotive

    Thanks!
     
    #65 Curtanu, Apr 6, 2017
  6. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    torque will do it.
    Go to Realtime information
    Hold your finger on a blank area of the screen for 2 seconds
    Choose Add a display
    Select type of display - Digital display
    Scroll down to HV Battery Block-01 Voltage
    Selecte size of display - Tiny
    Drag the display to where you want to place it on the screen.

    Repeat for all 14 modules
    Also add
    Delta SOC
    HV SOC
    Volts
    HVB Max # (HV Battery Block # with Max V)
    HVB Max V
    HVB Min # (HV Battery Block # with MinV)
    HVB Min V
    And any other data you are interested in.

    Yes Prolong maintenance charger/discharger is a real thing.
    Definitely needed for any pack that has replacement modules that don't match the other modules.
     
    #66 ericbecky, Apr 6, 2017
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  7. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    #67 SFO, Apr 6, 2017
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  8. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    Just came across this supplier - Toyota Prius Hybrid Battery | Bumblebee Batteries

    The price is $2395 + shipping for an all new cells HV battery. The cells are 8.0 amp, an upgrade from the Toyota standard 6.5 amp. So it looks like a superior to OEM unit at a lower than OEM price.

    If you're in Portland, OR they offer grid charging service - $125 for single charge up to $800 for full pack reconditioning (3 charge/discharge cycles over 2-3 days.
     
    #68 RobH, Apr 8, 2017
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  9. Curtanu

    Curtanu Junior Member

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    Thanks, yes. I'm not right next door, but am within striking distance of PDX. I actually just ran across them, too. I didn't see that their cells were all-new nor higher amps. That's intriguing; wonder how they do it. Still, for my damaged Prius, the cost remains prohibitive. I'm trying the Prolong reconditioner. We'll see if it works. [If not, I'll have one to sell to somebody -- both a dead Prius and an almost-new Prolong reconditioner.]
     
    #69 Curtanu, Apr 8, 2017
  10. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    [QUOTE="I didn't see that their cells were all-new nor higher amps. That's intriguing; wonder how they do it. [/QUOTE]

    messaged them. I was told The rebuilt Prius Packs use original battery "slices" and the BeeMax uses D cell style batteries like the Civic. That must be interesting inside the case.......

    Website states the BeeMax Prius battery dimensions are 19.3" wide 9,9 " high and 14.1" deep

    really?

    Just 28 OEM modules in the clamp mechanism is 23.25 inches
    9.9 inches high? IIRC, that's ~3+ inches higher than a OEM battery pack.
    14.1" deep? I think OEM is around 15, including mounting tabs.

    How do you install it and keep the floor? if it's 3" higher?

    No Thanks..........
     
    #70 TMR-JWAP, Apr 9, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2017
  11. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    So the real question is if it fits in the space available. I have to believe they've actually put one inside a real Prius.

    So who's first?
     
    #71 RobH, Apr 9, 2017
  12. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    I wouldn't knock it you guys.
    This is a real thing by a reputable battery company.
    A friend of mine who is also a hybrid mechanic has been running great one in his Prius with good results.

    Edit: Although I always roll my eyes a little at the whole 8amp hour discussion. But that doesn't take away from the idea of D-cell NiMh battery sticks in a Prius case.
     
    #72 ericbecky, Apr 10, 2017
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  13. 05PreeUs

    05PreeUs Senior Member

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    The reliability of the OEM pack is going to be very hard to beat and the CPM is what really matters, so lifespan is KEY.
     
    #73 05PreeUs, Apr 10, 2017
  14. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    How does it fit? The dimensions stated on the website were pretty specific. Are modifications required for the floor?
     
    #74 TMR-JWAP, Apr 10, 2017
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  15. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    What is this CPM all about?
     
    #75 SFO, Apr 10, 2017
  16. Curtanu

    Curtanu Junior Member

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    I think it must be "Cost Per Mile". Which is indeed the ultimate key. Saving gas is great & all, but if you pay a ton for the battery, then it takes away your ultimate benefit. A couple weeks ago, as I was searching for a new battery, I calculated it. I figured that if the new battery cost $3600 installed [I subsequently found one for cheaper -- see McDonaugh Toyota in Texas], and if it lasts 10 years, and if I drive 12K miles/year, and if I get 47mpg in the Prius, then compared to a Plain Old Car getting 27mpg, the break-even cost of gas is $1.90/gallon. So if gas costs more than $1.90, then yes the Prius saves money. But not so much as I had thought.
     
    #76 Curtanu, Apr 12, 2017
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  17. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    Looked for McDonaugh Toyota in Texas, only found the one in GA and in VA.

    How much less was it, and are they willing to ship?

    Have you seen this thread : https://priuschat.com/posts/2495800/
     
    #77 SFO, Apr 12, 2017
  18. Curtanu

    Curtanu Junior Member

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    Now, back on the original thread, I have an update.

    I got an OBDII WiFi dongle (after much searching for something that worked, I found one by "Foseal" that looked promising; $20), and "Engine Link" for iOS. (I would've got Torque for Android, except that I don't have an Android device, so this was easier.)

    I figured out how to use Engine Link -- not too hard, really -- and tested it out this evening.

    The "problem" is that it appears that my battery is actually OK. So far as I can tell. What do y'all think? First, I haven't ever observed the SOC spiking down or up. Although I haven't driven it much lately, I've been watching the SOC charge [in the standard Prius display] like a hawk. No spikes. And now this: here's a photo of the Engine Link app, showing the 14 HV battery blocks. In the short time that I was watching, all 14 are matched very closely. They ranged from 16.5V down to what you see in the photo (which was after sitting with the car on, but gas engine not having run for a few minutes). But they are all 14 very close to each other. So... does that tend to imply that my problem is not the battery dying, but something else?

    BTW, Engine Link found only 1 error code: P0A7A.

    So -- is it the battery at end-of-life, or not? Thanks in advance for any ideas/tips/discussion.

    Here's the pic of the HV blocks, from Engine Link:
    IMG_0140.JPG
     
    #78 Curtanu, Apr 12, 2017
  19. Curtanu

    Curtanu Junior Member

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    Sorry, I was typing from memory. Here's the link to the battery (gen 2):
    Battery - Toyota (G9510-47031) | McDonoughOE

    Yes, they appear to ship it. (Note that I haven't actually bought one, just found it online.)

    And no I didn't see that thread! I'll have to look thru it. Though right now, I'm no so sure I need a new battery.

    BTW, this is a real problem here on PriusChat.com -- how do you **find** those threads that contain key information? E.g., I searched & found a thread discussing Engine Link, but the entire first page of posts was dreadfully boring and not promising. So I gave up on that one and went elsewhere. But days later, I ran across another thread that referenced the first thread & said it was great & had all the info I needed. So... turns out it did, yes. But you had to read through pages of discussion to find it. Argh.
     
    #79 Curtanu, Apr 12, 2017
  20. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    I have not heard of any Toyota dealer that will ship a new battery.

    If there aren't any battery codes then you may be able to look elsewhere for the issue.

    But you may need to just watch it for a while to see if other codes come up over time.

    Just yesterday I had a car that had random P0A80 code. Everything looked fine most of the time. All battery blocks looked similar. Even checked in techstream live data. But only when looking at the freeze frame data did you see the one block drop momentarily low. Even though there wasn't a code for that block dropping low. Strange.
     
    #80 ericbecky, Apr 12, 2017
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