SKS 2006 blinks the signal lights four (4) times when opening door - seems like an overkill?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by ZeroM8, Aug 22, 2021.

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  1. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    I do not see any programming features that might be material to the problems mentioned here.

    In regards to the fob you have, is any of the rubber membrane that covers the buttons damaged. If it is, have you opened it up and checked that none of the buttons are sticking in the down position. If you do open the case and clean the switches with a suitable circuit board cleaner. Make sure you have appropriate glue to close it back up or replace the case with a cheap aftermarket shell.

    I was looking back over the thread and earlier you said this:
    The 'Chicken Dance' is to add a second fob when you have a good working fob. So I'm not sure what you could have done with a single fob that appears to not work correctly.

    Here is the procedure to check the operation of a fob.

    OPERATION CHECK

    1. NOTES WHEN CHECKING
    (a) Wireless door LOCK/UNLOCK function:
    This function operates only when the following 4 conditions are met.
    • No key is inserted into the key slot.
    • All the doors are closed.
    • The power door lock control system is functioning normally.
    • Key is not within the key detection area.
    HINT:
    The UNLOCK function operates even when one of the doors is open.

    (b) Panic function:
    This wireless control function operates only when the following condition is met.
    • The power switch must be OFF.
    HINT:
    The key can be inserted. However the power switch must be OFF.

    (c) The wireless transmitter operating range differs depending on the situation.
    • The operating range differs depending on the user, the way the transmitter is held and the location.
    • In certain areas, the operating range will be reduced due to the vehicle body shape and the influence of the surrounding environment.
    • Since the transmitter uses faint electric waves, the operating range might be shortened if noise or strong electric waves occur in the area where the transmitter is used. Or, the transmitter may not function.
    • When the battery weakens, the operating range is reduced or the transmitter may not function.
    HINT:
    If the transmitter has been left in a place that is exposed to direct sunlight, such as on the instrument panel, the battery may weaken or other problem may occur.​

    2. WIRELESS DOOR LOCK CONTROL FUNCTIONS
    HINT:
    • The switches described below transmit signals and are built into the door control transmitter.
    • The operating range must be taken into account while checks are being made.

    (a) Make sure the vehicle is in a condition where the wireless door lock control function can be operated (see above).

    (b) Check basic functions:
    • Check that the transmitter's LED illuminates 3 times when each switch is pressed 3 times.
    HINT:
    If the LED does not illuminate when the switch has been pressed 3 times or more, the battery may be depleted.
    • Check that all doors (including the back door)
    lock when the LOCK switch is pressed.
    • Check that only the driver side door unlocks
    when the UNLOCK switch is pressed once, and that the remaining doors unlock when the UNLOCK switch is pressed again within 3 seconds.
    ​
    (c) Check the chattering prevention function:
    • Check that pressing a switch will result in the
    switch's operation occurring only once; and when the switch is held down, the operation is not repeated continuously. Also, make sure that when the switch is pressed at intervals of approximately 1 second, the switch's operation activates once for every press of the switch.
    ​
    (d) Check the automatic locking function:
    • Check that if all of the doors are unlocked with the UNLOCK switch and none of the doors are
    opened or locked within approximately 30
    seconds, the door automatically relocks.
    • Check that if all of the doors are unlocked with
    the UNLOCK switch and a door is opened or locked within approximately 30 seconds, the automatic locking function does not operate.
    ​
    (e) Check the switch operation fail-safe function:
    • Check that the doors cannot be locked by a
    transmitter switch while the key is in the key slot. However, this does not apply when the system is in recognition code registration mode.
    ​
    (f) Check the operation stop function when a door is open or not completely closed:
    • Check that if a door is open or not completely
    closed, the doors cannot be locked by the LOCK
    switch.
    ​
    (g) Check the repeat function:
    • Check that if the LOCK switch is pressed while the movement of the driver side door control knob (in the unlocked state) is restricted, the repeat function attempts to lock all of the doors again 2 seconds later.
    ​
    (h) Check the answer-back function:
    • When the LOCK switch is pressed, confirm the simultaneous occurrence of all the hazard warning lights flashing once, the buzzer sounding once and all the doors locking.
    • When the UNLOCK switch is pressed, confirm the simultaneous occurrence of all the hazard warning lights flashing twice, the buzzer sounding twice and the driver side door unlocking.
    • When the UNLOCK switch is pressed again within 3 seconds, confirm the simultaneous occurrence of all the hazard warning lights flashing twice, the buzzer sounding twice and all the doors unlocking.
    (i) Check the illuminated entry function:
    • When all the doors are locked, pressing the UNLOCK switch causes the room light (when the light switch is in the DOOR position) to illuminate simultaneously with the unlock operation.
    • Check that the room light turns off in approximately 15 seconds if doors have not been opened.
    ​
    (j) Check the panic function:
    Check that if the PANIC switch is held down for 0.8 seconds or more, the theft-deterrent alarm function sounds the horn and flashes the headlights and taillights for 60 seconds. And, with the theft alarm function active, check if pressing any switch on the transmitter causes the horn to stop sounding and the headlights and taillights to stop flashing.
    ​
     
    #41 dolj, Sep 2, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2021
  2. ZeroM8

    ZeroM8 Junior Member

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    Hi dolj, that's quite a lot of info there, but I'll knock them out one at a time as time allows. Just in time as I got the new delivered today.

    - you're saying I cannot program the fob without a good working one?

    So I tried programming the new one, but...

    - indeed, I cannot program the new one for starting the car, but managed to program it to do the car unlock/lock, similar to the orig one. The caveat of course is that it still loses it, i.e about 30 seconds of closing the driver door, the unlock / lock doesn't work anymore

    -if I leave the driver side door open, then it works for as long as you leave it open, and if you close it as long as you lock/unlock within 30 secs, and then leave the door open again, it can work indefinitely

    -if you unlock the door but don't open it, it will re lock the door again in 30 secs (from the operational procedures you posted)

    So it works to some degree but not as expected. I was hoping I could at least program the new one to start the car, then I can live with using the metal key, start the car using the fob, but I have no back up now to start the car in case I lose this one and only fob I have.

    ***This one is a discovery: I tore down the center Console see pics, as I suspect the transceiver is the culprit, but it doesn't look like it. What I found in this car, and I am not sure if this is true for a good working one, is that the transceiver under the center console,
    is only for starting the car without inserting the fob in the dashboard slot, it has nothing to do with the door unlock / lock system
    At least in this car. Again unless this is because this system is messed up.

    I unplugged the transceiver, and the unlock/lock function still works, MVIMG_20210904_155719.jpg but losing the memory again in 30 secs as expected. But the only thing it prevents me from doing is to start the car in SKS mode (key outside the dashboard slot). Other than that nothing else.

    Now when I did the programming, i tried it 6 times to no avail. The anti theft LED never blink when you expect it to (Procedure A) hence it never programs the new fob for starting.

    Could it be the anti-theft system that is not working? How am I going to check that? What system hold the anti-theft circuit?

    Edit: I read through checklist 1) notes when checking and 2) wireless functions, above. And verified to my mind, as I have played with the functions several times.

    1) the system is operational in all of this checklist, save for the panic button test as the panic button of the orig fob fell off and I could not operate it to depress the button

    2) wireless functions : going thru my head the repeated tests I've done, a, b, c ,d, e ,f, g,h, i are all operational as long as it's done within 30 secs after the car is turned off After that nothing else works, other than using the metal key and starting the car.

    2) item (j) I am unable to test right now as the button fell off as mentioned.

    Edit: I've verified this multiple times so my title of this post is wrong: Unlock function when it's working toggles the door locks and blinks the lights a total of five (5) times, plus an additional two more blinks without the door lock toggle.
     
    #42 ZeroM8, Sep 4, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2021
  3. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    You say under the console? It should be at the rear of the console behind the rear cupholders.
    That is correct, it is for SKS keyless starting. It also detects that the key in the car as part of the lock/unlock.
    Are you talking about SKS here or remote lock/unlock?
    Have you tried going around to the right side (US passenger side) of the car and testing with the driver's door closed?
     
    #43 dolj, Sep 4, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2021
  4. ZeroM8

    ZeroM8 Junior Member

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    -Yes you are correct, behind the rear cup holder. You said "it also detects the key in the car as part of the lock/unlock". Indeed I accidentally locked my car with the key inside. It did not detect it and so I was locked out, had to call CAA to unlock. But replaced this yesterday (the part pictured above), with one from my friend's car to rule it out, same part number, same frequency. It behaves exactly the same, i.e. has not resolved the issue.

    -Remote lock/unlock. My apologies that this post is kind of messy, my understanding is not clear, and using my smartphone to do this post is quite challenging. With this you mean the SKS controlled by that module behind the rear cup holder, is separate from the Remote lock/unlock?

    If so what system controls the Remote lock/unlock- I think that is where my main problem is. My understanding is limited, as I thought when SKS is mentioned, it covers the entire lock/unlock and starting mechanisms. I think the sks is working.

    One thing I also noticed is that even though the door switches are switched to "door" so the cabin light illuminates when you are near the car, that never happens unless it's less than thirty seconds of closing the driver door, i.e. when it loses the function and problem is there, cabin light does not illuminate. So the remote lock/unlock controls this, not the sks if they are separate systems.

    Also when attempting to program for "starting the car" on my new fob, the anti-theft red light on the dashboard doesn't illuminate, hence it never goes to programming mode.

    -I have not tried this but I will. What would doing this help me test?

    Edit: tried opening the passenger side door and left it open. Yes, it behaves the same as when the driver side door is open, i.e. the door lock / unlock keeps working.

    TIA
     
    #44 ZeroM8, Sep 6, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2021
  5. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    I was more interested in whether the passenger side works correctly or not.
    Whether the passenger side receiver works correctly.
     
    #45 dolj, Sep 7, 2021
  6. ZeroM8

    ZeroM8 Junior Member

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    Passenger side door is working, but only within the 30 secs of closing it. After 30 secs, the door lock/unlock does not work anymore.

    Which is what the driver side door does also.
    So there is a separate passenger door receiver?

    Note: I found a similar transceiver under the trunk beside the jack and spare tire. I assume this is for the rear trunk door?

    I replaced it with the one I took from the rear cup holder, which is presumed good as the problem did not go away when I replaced it, and of course, the remote lock/unlock still as it is.
     
    #46 ZeroM8, Sep 7, 2021
  7. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    That's what I wanted to know. It looks like the oscillators in the doors are ok so it would seem that the SKS is shutting down after 30 secs. I presume the behavior is the same at the rear?
    Those two units have similar but not the same part number and are called the indoor electrical key oscillator No. 1 and No. 2 respectively. Being different part numbers would suggest they are not interchangeable. They are both for detecting the key inside the car for the SKS though. The oscillator that detects the key outside the car for the rear door is behind the rear bumper cover.

    How did you get on with all the tests in post #41?
     
    #47 dolj, Sep 7, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021
  8. ZeroM8

    ZeroM8 Junior Member

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    -Haven't actually tried the rear, but will try it out tonight. That rear hatch handle in the back is quite weak so I did not like opening it often (same issue with my 2004). But I would think it will be the same behaviour, will get back to you on that.

    What would cause the SKS to shut down? Do we have at least a system diagram of these components (SKS, remote lock/unlock)?

    -Good to know there's also one behind the bumper cover but that is a challenge to get to that part. The one beside the jack / spare tire had the same model number (MDL RO-2TY-1) and frequency (Freq 134.2kHz) as the one behind the rear cup holder when I quickly checked it last night, hence I swapped them (part looks same as in pic above). I will double check the two numbers above 'MDL' again as it was dusk last night when I found it.

    Is there more of these transceivers somewhere else aside from 1) behind rear cup holder, 2) beside the jack/spare tire 3) behind the rear bumper cover ?

    -I am quite 95% confident they work as per the QA tests of post #41. I can go through those tests again, when time permits. I think the biggest issue is in why it "loses memory" of the fob or wherever sections/subsystem stores some info on this, after 30 secs. And of course theres that silly 5 blinks + lock/unlock and the two more blinks after that. And also the fact that i cannot program the new fob for starting the car.
     
    #48 ZeroM8, Sep 7, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021
  9. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    The part number is the first one printed at the top of the label, 89992-47030. I'm not sure what the relevance of the MDL number is.

    Indoor Electrical Key Oscillator No.1 Part number: 89992-47030. Situated at the rear of the center console.
    Indoor Electrical Key Oscillator No.2 Part number: 89992-47040. Situated just rear of the HV battery electronics bay.
    Agreed. It might be time to consult the information available in TIS. There is a wiki page that has a lot of information about how to access TIS and the repair manual. (more info here and here).
     
    #49 dolj, Sep 7, 2021
  10. ZeroM8

    ZeroM8 Junior Member

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    Hi dolj, I am going thru the manuals now, will update if I find something to address the issue.

    Huge pile of information to go thru. Been reading how the SKS user manual sections, so far nothing out of what we haven't explored before.

    Would you advise to get the "Security Professional" option. Though it only mentions U.S. and Mexico customers only? Because it mentions Keycodes, Immobilizer, Smart Reset.

    Thanks.

    EDIT: Nope, can't get the "Security Professional" option without some license...form techinfo.toyota.com "Before you can purchase this subscription level, you must be a current member of the NASTF Vehicle Security Professional Registry"
     
    #50 ZeroM8, Sep 9, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2021
  11. ZeroM8

    ZeroM8 Junior Member

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    Hi all, still poring over the multitude of info here from the Service Manual. Have not found any yet that will tell me where the issue could be. Good luck to me, unless someone has a quick suggestion. Just keeping this post alive...:(

    :whistle:

    And maybe as a Summary to the issue(s) I have:

    1) Remote door lock/unlock doesn't work after 30 seconds of turning Off the Car, unless the driver or passenger side door is left open.
    2) Car horn beeps for about three (3) seconds when Starting the Car (have to enter the car with a mechanical key)
    3) SKS or non-SKS works for Starting the car (i.e. whether fob is inserted or not, conforming to the switch settings below steering)
    4) Can't program a new fresh remote for Starting the car, but can program for door lock/unlock, but same issue as item 1)
    5) When door Unlock works within 30 seconds of turning the car off, headlights and rear lights blinks (and unlocks the doors) four times, and the headlights and rear lights blinks twice more after that (smart key mode). When locking the door (smart key mode) it blinks and locks the door only once.
    6) The 12V battery is deemed working without issues, and the Car starts, and drives well
    7) Remote (fob) also deemed to be working, led blinks solid (battery is brand new and replaced twice)
    8) Have replaced the door lock oscillators behind the rear cup holder and beside the HV battery by the spare tire bay
    9) Conforms to the OPERATION CHECK (as posted by dolj) within 30 sec window of turning off the Car (until it loses it's memory, as I call this issue as what it appears to me...)

    ...TBC
     
    #51 ZeroM8, Sep 13, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
  12. burrito

    burrito Active Member

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    I am wondering if someone previously installed (or attempted to install, or installed and removed [or attempted to remove]) an aftermarket security system. Remove what you can in the driver's footwell area to expose the wiring and ECUs near the fusebox. I believe such security systems pretty much always have wiring in this area, as they need to immobilize the car, prevent door unlocking, and sound the horn. Unfortunately, I'm not really sure what exactly you should be looking for, but perhaps you'll see something that doesn't belong.

    Maybe someone who has actually installed security systems can chime in.
     
    #52 burrito, Sep 14, 2021
  13. ZeroM8

    ZeroM8 Junior Member

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    Hi Burrito, thanks for the tip. I did open up that area to fix the stereo, but did not really pay close attention to it. I know the area you are talking about and I will open it up again and have a closer look. You may be right, if I find something there, I will take them out, or see if there's anything out of the ordinary or not working, suspect wirings and such...

    I am also looking at the diagrams and schematics. The areas I think that may affect these behavior are: Power Source Control ECU, Gateway ECU and Transponder Key ECU, among other things. I am hoping yourself or someone else can chime in if replacing these modules needs specific programming or that it is specific to this vehicle OR I can just swap them out. A friend of mine has this salvage/parts vehicle that I may be able to take parts from to try.
     
    #53 ZeroM8, Sep 14, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
  14. burrito

    burrito Active Member

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    Do you have access to the repair manual for this car?
     
    #54 burrito, Sep 14, 2021
  15. ZeroM8

    ZeroM8 Junior Member

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    Yes, dolj sent me a link to the file and I downloaded it...I highlighted the areas I want to remove/replace depending on how hard they are to do...

    ECU's needed.png
     
    #55 ZeroM8, Sep 14, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
  16. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Rather than just a hit and hope replacing parts strategy, you need to be looking for why you are getting the behavior you are getting.

    At least two of those ECUs yoiu identified are difficult to get to by design.

    ECUs cannot be programmed, so if that's what your plan is based on, you are barking up the wrong tree.

    The light flashing and horn honking behavior you described is not OEM, so the idea already floated of some kind of aftermarket system being added to this car is for what I'd be looking.

    The OEM behavior of the immobilizer is:
    • Lock - one flash of all the indicator lights and one short chirp of the 'wireless buzzer'.
    • Unlock - two flashes of all the indicators and two short chirps of the 'wireless buzzer'.
    Both of these signals can indidually be disabled if desired by customizing the immobilizer settings. My personal settings are to have the indicator answer back only with the audio feedback disabled.

    I hope this helps a little.
     
    #56 dolj, Sep 14, 2021
  17. ZeroM8

    ZeroM8 Junior Member

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    Thanks for that insight, hence why I bounce that idea out there to get some more info if this is practical and doable. Manufacturers includes serviceability into their design (we hope) and if that part is not meant to be serviced, they make it inaccessible or hard to remove. I shall abandon that route for now, and will look more closely at the driver footwell area. However, it that doesn't turn anything out, not sure where to proceed.

    It's possible the previous owner(s) made customizations to this, or that if they installed aftermarket products, it affected this behaviour, and/or the aftermarket product required this change (?), hence the non-OEM response. How do you get to those customization settings? Do you need to have the Intelligent Tester as mentioned in the manual, or can I use TechStream, if I could get my hands on one?

    Fall is here, my window for fixing this is closing in, but that doesn't mean I can't keep troubleshooting. I just noticed the other night while driving, that the Power Button is lit green, this is supposed to be off when in ready mode. I did another off/on sequence after a route stop and now it was off as it should. I also noticed that there is a step I can do that prevents it from beeping loud for 3 seconds when starting the car but it's not clear to me how I do it yet - but has something to do with how I lock the door. This car is pretty messed up right now in this area, but not a deal breaker yet...
     
    #57 ZeroM8, Sep 15, 2021
  18. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Yes, it is possible, but the only changes are ON/OFF to the two parameters I mentioned so it does not explain the flashing of headlights/tail lights/horn honks or the number of the said signals.
    Yes, either will work. Techstream is more likely the easier to obtain. You will also probably be able to use a professional level scan tool like an Autel or SnapOn for example.
     
    #58 dolj, Sep 15, 2021
  19. burrito

    burrito Active Member

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    You might also consider taking it to a car audio place, or some other business which specializes in installation of aftermarket security devices and remote starters. Their experience may enable them to troubleshoot in a way the dealer cannot.
     
    #59 burrito, Sep 15, 2021
  20. ZeroM8

    ZeroM8 Junior Member

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    Maybe it will eventually come to that. I'll have to look it up though, I do not know of any place here that I can go to and have them assess this. There's big box stores that have ads on remote car starters and audio systems installation. Just not sure how much expertise they have as I have not tried it.

    When I call Toyota dealership close by for a key fob pricing (I only had one when I got the car), the person I talked to actually suggested that it may be cheaper to get a remote starter instead of a his quoted C$400-C$500 to program a key fob. With the Canadian winter weather here that gets too cold, remote starters are quite desirable.
     
    #60 ZeroM8, Sep 16, 2021
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