The North Pole Is Melting

F8L · Oct 30, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(banjoman @ Oct 30 2007, 12:23 PM) [snapback]532548[/snapback]</div>

I was hoping to see what the immediate affects are to lend credence to the whole GW discussion. 20k years is a little too macro. How about the last, say, 20 years.
[/b]
Click to expand...

There is so much more to sea level changes than just proclaiming a simple number. I'm finding it even more complex than I orginally thought so I'll post some of my findings here for you to go over. Sorry I cannot make it a simple number.

I doubt the link will work but I'll try HERE

The rate of sea level rise was greater during the twentieth century than the nineteenth (or any previous century in the simulation), because greater anthropogenic forcing of climate change (some of it due to emissions during the nineteenth century) led to larger thermal expansion and more rapid glacier retreat. The acceleration of sea level rise during the twentieth century was relatively small, that is, the rate was relatively constant, because increasing anthropogenic forcing was partially offset by decreasing natural forcing. Crowley et al. (2003) reached similar conclusions for ocean heat content using a simpler climate model.

The simulated rates of thermal expansion and mass loss by glaciers and ice caps for recent decades are in reasonable agreement with observed estimates of these terms, but their sum (-0.5 mm yr^sup -1^) is less than half of the rate of sea level rise derived from tide gauge records (~1.8 mm yr^sup -1^). Reassessment of glacier mass balance (e.g., Dyurgerov and Meier 2005) might add ~0.2 mm yr^sup -1^ to their contribution. The model results suggest that it is unlikely that there were large positive contributions from the ice sheets of Greenland and Antarctica or from reductions in seasonal snow cover or soil moisture. On the contrary, the Antarctic ice sheet might have gained mass, offsetting part of the loss of land ice elsewhere. This discrepancy between the sum of the terms and the observed total has been discussed previously by Church et al. (2001), Munk (2002), Woodworth et al. (2004), and other authors.

[/b]
Click to expand...

Reference:

J M Gregory, J A Lowe, S F B Tett. "Simulated Global-Mean Sea Level Changes over the Last Half-Millennium. " Journal of Climate 19.18 (2006): 4576-4591

F8L · Oct 30, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sliderule @ Oct 30 2007, 08:03 PM) [snapback]532724[/snapback]</div>

F8L,

Please visit this web site: http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.ph...rming-snow-job/
[/b]
Click to expand...

I would love to be grateful that you posted a link that seemed like it contained scientific information but upon reading it and further investigation I see you linked me to a bi-weekly report put on by the front group "The Greening Earth Society"... a front group for The Western Fuels Association? I really do appreciate the effort and I assume you didn't realize their source.

I understand that this does not automatically exclude them from having legit information but it does cast a HUGE shadow of doubt.

Links:

The Greening Earth Society â€” funded and controlled by the Western Fuels Association, an association of coal-burning utility companies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greening_Earth_Society

The Greening Earth Society VS. the State of the World
- by Ian Smith, in collaboration with NOAA Scientist Pieter Tans

Greening Earth Society/Western Fuels Association

rwhoyle · Oct 31, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Oct 30 2007, 10:35 PM) [snapback]532734[/snapback]</div>

I would love to be grateful that you posted a link that seemed like it contained scientific information but upon reading it and further investigation I see you linked me to a bi-weekly report put on by the front group "The Greening Earth Society"... a front group for The Western Fuels Association? I really do appreciate the effort and I assume you didn't realize their source.

I understand that this does not automatically exclude them from having legit information but it does cast a HUGE shadow of doubt.

Links:

The Greening Earth Society â€” funded and controlled by the Western Fuels Association, an association of coal-burning utility companies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greening_Earth_Society

The Greening Earth Society VS. the State of the World
- by Ian Smith, in collaboration with NOAA Scientist Pieter Tans

Greening Earth Society/Western Fuels Association
[/b]
Click to expand...

You know the old saying...."You can lead a horse to water, but you can't .........."

F8L · Oct 31, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sliderule @ Oct 31 2007, 07:16 AM) [snapback]532883[/snapback]</div>

You know the old saying...."You can lead a horse to water, but you can't .........."
[/b]
Click to expand...

So you are saying I should put 100% faith in organization? Wow! :lol:

hill · Oct 31, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 22 2007, 07:07 PM) [snapback]516338[/snapback]</div>

It's not the effect of the melting of the polar cap that concerns me, it's the cause(s)!! The melting is a symptom of something more. Think of a fever in a child. The fever isn't dangerous, it'll resolve, but if the cause of the fever is a severe bacterial meningitis then without treatment the child dies.

The point is that the melting of the ice caps is a symptom of a more serious underlying disease.
[/b]
Click to expand...

Symptoms yes, but it's even more. Ocean temps near the equator approach 100 degrees, and carry surface oxygen towards the poles ... where the polar ice temps drag the oxygen down towards the bottom where the oxigenated waters head back towards the equator. Once that cycle diminishes, kiss your arse good bye (no big deal, it probably won't happen 'till your grandkids are adults ). Ever smelled the de-oxygenated mud in a swamp? That offgassng is a result of bacteria that thrive in deoxygenated environments. Akin to sulpher ... and in higher & higher amounts it becomes so toxic it will be fatal. Welcome to the future. Heck, the corporate oilies better hire more scientists to say it's not so.

MegansPrius · Oct 31, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sliderule @ Oct 30 2007, 10:03 PM) [snapback]532724[/snapback]</div>

F8L,

Please visit this web site: http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.ph...rming-snow-job/
[/b]
Click to expand...

Frankly, a web article from 2005 on the site edited by Patrick Michaels, who regularly gets his money from the oil industry, is hardly much of a source. World Climate Report is published by the Greening Earth Society, basically a front-group funded by the Western Fuels Association

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title...g_Earth_Society
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title...ick_J._Michaels
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/personfactsheet.php?id=4

A better discussion of Antarctic ice can be found at
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archi...ctica-snowfall/

The North Pole Is Melting

F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

rwhoyle Member

F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

hill High Fiber Member

MegansPrius GoogleMeister, AKA bongokitty

About PriusChat

Quick Navigation

Like us on Facebook

Buy us a beer!

Useful Searches

The North Pole Is Melting

F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

rwhoyle Member

F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

hill High Fiber Member

MegansPrius GoogleMeister, AKA bongokitty