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What would mechanics look at?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by JoanneR, May 24, 2024.

  1. JoanneR

    JoanneR Member

    Joined:
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    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
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    2013 Prius three, 106,000 miles, driven by an old lady

    Filled up tank 5/14, changed engine air filter & cabin air filter myself. (OEM from Toyota dealership). Prius to dealer for synthetic oil change 5/15 (they offered it at $21.00 so I said OK). On trip to Costco for tire rotation on 5/22, I looked at trip computer and it said 39.x mpg. That got my attention because I have never seen it that low, usually 46-49 mpg. 5/23, it went up to 40.8 on a trip of 20 miles. Have checked oil level (OK); checked engine air filter orientation, gasket is up; 12 volt battery 12.1 volts. 1/22/2024: New spark plugs, EGR system cleaned, new PCV valve, throttle body cleaned at 104,700 at Tampa Hybrids. Filled up tank today (5/23): 142.7 miles, 3.58 gallons = 39.86 mpg. The miles of the trips has not changed for 11 years, so the drop is unusual.

    Just want to get some ideas what might be going on. I will be taking it to Tampa Hybrids next week. I have started to go to Tampa Hybrids on PriusChatters recommendations. You are right, they are great, Todd patiently explained everything they were doing & answered my questions.

    - What fuel economy are you getting and how are you determining fuel economy? (trip computer or manual calculations) Prior to last week, I was getting about 46 to 49 (50+ on long trips) per trip computer. Last week I filled up and today I filled up, manual calculation: 142.7 miles, 3.58 gallons = 39.86 mpg.

    - What fuel economy are you expecting and why? 46 and up which is what it has been consistently.

    - What are the approximate outside air temps? Starting to get warmer here in Tampa Bay. Garage temp is high 70s to 80. Outside temp has been going up to high 80s and 90s.

    - How long are your trips? Short trips, mostly around 10-20 miles, with occasional long trips of 60 miles, with two 1,600-mile trips/year. This has been normal trip mileage for 11 years.

    How old is your 12v battery? What is the voltage reading of your 12v battery after sitting over night? 3/2020 70,000 miles. 12 volt battery is reading at 12.1 volts.

    - Have you had your alignment checked? Any pulling or abnormal tire wear? Was at Costco 2 days ago and they suggested getting an alignment. Last alignment 2/2023 at 96,589 miles

    - How much of it is city vs. highway? Roughly what's the average speed in overall and and of each segment? Is there a lot of stop and go driving? 90% short trips, 10% highway. Short trips have stop and go. Average speed probably 40 mph.

    - What's the terrain like of your drives? (e.g. flat, gentle hills, steep hills, etc.) Flat

    - What are your tire pressures? Front 35, rear 33.

    - Is your oil overfilled? (i.e. above the full mark on the dipstick) No

    - Make, model, year, engine and transmission of previous car? (e.g. 08 Honda Civic Si 2.0L 4 cylinder, manual transmission) What did you actually get on the same trips/commute? (Please give us actual numbers, not EPA ratings.) 2006 Prius (can't remember model) In the mid to high 40's mpg.

    - What region/state are you in? (if you haven't set your location) Tampa Bay, FL

    - How are you trying to drive (e.g. trying to stay in electric only?) and how hard are you braking? No hard breaking unless it's urgent. Not trying to stay in electric.

    - What modes are you using, if any? "normal", EV, power, eco? I don't know because the buttons are not working

    - Are you "warming up" the ICE (internal combustion engine) by letting it idle after powering on? Maybe about a minute.
    - Are you driving using D or B mode? D mode

    - HVAC settings? Are you using the heater, AC, auto mode, etc.? If using auto, what temp is it set to? Use the AC mostly, auto set at 69.

    - Are you using the factory tires and wheels? If not, please indicate tire make, model and size (e.g. Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max 185/65R15). Michelin X-tour 195/65R 91 at 89,425 miles

    - If reporting a mileage drop, did anything significant change on your car (e.g. accident, hit a curb or big pothole throwing off alignment, oil change/other maintenance/repairs, changed tires or wheels, etc.) or your commute? Oil change by dealer on 5/15.
     
    #1 JoanneR, May 24, 2024
    Last edited: May 24, 2024
  2. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Location:
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    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
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    12 volt battery: 12.1 volts. That's a big issue. 12.6 or above after sitting overnight.
    Did you get it from Toyota? Check the warranty on it no matter who you got it from.
    You could try charging it at 5 amps or less for about 8 hours to bring it to a full charge.
    Since you 90% city driving and short trips, the 12v battery doesn't get a full charge.
    After charging, wait about 30 minutes for the battery to cool off and stablize, then check the voltage.
    If it's the Toyota OEM battery, it's only through half it's life at 4 years.

    You could adjust the tire pressurs to 36 or 38psi, for all four.

    You should figure out why the "mode" buttons are not working. Drive in "ECO" mode will
    give you the best MPG.

    69 is fairly cool, even in Florida. I keep mine at 75, 95% of the time. And on recirculate, on auto.
    Usually I will have it set lower when I first get in the car if it's been siting in the sun. But I open the
    windows(about 1/2 way), fan on medium high, recirc is off. Outside air at 90 cools quicker than the 125 inside the car.
    Usually in less that a minute I will close the drivers window, then the passenger front window.
    Then I hit recirculate. And fairly quickly I close the rear windows. I turn the temp up to 74 and put the a/c on "auto".
    When I feel comfortable, I put it to 75. And go back and forth from 75-76.
    90% of my driving is highway. But even in the city I pretty much do the same thing.

    All these things add up.
    The most important one is the 12v battery. 12.1 volts is extremely low for a Prius.
    That would be the first thing to address. All kind of weird things are likely to happen with a
    weak and/or bad 12volt battery. And they are easy to change.


    How old is your 12v battery? What is the voltage reading of your 12v battery after sitting over night? 3/2020 70,000 miles. 12 volt battery is reading at 12.1 volts.

    - How much of it is city vs. highway? Roughly what's the average speed in overall and and of each segment? Is there a lot of stop and go driving? 90% short trips, 10% highway. Short trips have stop and go. Average speed probably 40 mph.

    - What are your tire pressures? Front 35, rear 33.

    - What modes are you using, if any? "normal", EV, power, eco? I don't know because the buttons are not working

    - HVAC settings? Are you using the heater, AC, auto mode, etc.? If using auto, what temp is it set to? Use the AC mostly, auto set at 69.
     
    JoanneR likes this.
  3. PTS

    PTS Member

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    Three
    Other than dragging brakes, a Prius that loses significant mpg with no change in driving habits is very likely close to the end of its hybrid battery capacity. Less ability to store energy means less ability to assist the engine for better mpg.

    I have seen it many times.
     
    #3 PTS, May 24, 2024
    Last edited: May 24, 2024
    JoanneR and Brian1954 like this.
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    make sure the air filter housing top is on correctly, check the oil level and tyres pressure
     
  5. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    Michelin X-tour 195/65R 91

    Found it! Incorrect tire size.
     
  6. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Could bear on it, but if I read this right the tires were changed quite some time ago but the MPG loss is much more recent.

    Can you get back to expected MPG by temporarily disabling AC?

    When a Prius air conditioner loses some of its refrigerant, the automation in the system will force the compressor to work much harder to get the same amount of cooling. This shows up as reduced MPG for a while, and eventually the compressor works itself to death.

    If you can "magically" reclaim your expected mpg by running without AC, it may be worth having that system checked out by a pro.
     
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah 12.1 volt reading on the 12 volt battery doesn’t bode good. Depending on how you measured. Optimum would be first thing in morning, car off, using a digital volt meter. If practical pop the hood the night before, to avoid any “waking up” of the car’s electronic systems. Not imperative though.

    sounds like you’re in good hands with Tampa Hybrids, with EGR cleaning and all.
     
  8. JoanneR

    JoanneR Member

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    "Michelin X-tour 195/65R 91"

    For those saying I have the incorrect tire size, what size should I have?
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I think @Grit's making fun of your typo, he lives for that. Should read "195/65R15". The "91" is kinda secondary, a speed rating?

    The 195/65R15 means:

    195: tread width of tire in mm
    65: ratio of width to height of tire in percent (height will be 65% of 195, or ~127 mm)
    R: that it's a radial tire (pretty much universal nowadays)
    15: the nominal diameter of the tire in inches; rims for it will also be 15"
     
    JoanneR likes this.
  10. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    I was thinking of 91” tires were installed.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  11. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Hi Jo - My two cents is to ask Todd if he can find why your drive mode buttons are not switching modes. Since that is the only thing on your list that stands out.

    I'm a big believer in the DrPrius app coupled with an inexpensive ODB2 bluetooth adapter for the main purpose in Fl. being able to keep an eye on your hybrid high voltage battery temperatures. Ask Todd what he thinks of a setup like that. DrPrius is free to install on a cell phone. If you want to be able to control the hybrid battery fan speed from the app, the developer of the app asks for a $12 subscription fee.