When to do 1st oil change?

I was among the first to get a Honda S2000. I changed the oil after 300 mi to synthetic and saw excessive oil consumption afterwards. It was after a few months that Honda came out with a directive NOT to change the oil too soon or to synthetic too soon, to allow the rings to seat.

I am planning to go 5000 mi beofre first oil change with the Prius. The oil filter should become more effective when a bit older from new, and the engine does not run for all those miles anyway.

 

So.... some have posted 1000-1500 miles as a matter of fact. In Canada, the instruction is to wait the normal time. Someone has practical experience with a Honda.

My dealer said after 1000 miles and gave me a coupon to get it done by them.

I'm just about at 1000. Change or not. So far I haven't see a consensus.

 

Ask your dealer the specifics: wait at *least* until 1,000 miles, or wait until the first 5,000 miles?

Although there are exceptions out there, most manufacturers are now telling their customers to wait until the first normally scheduled oil change. A co-worker with a new Nissan Murano V6 was told to definitely wait until the first recommended interval, and to not use synthetics until at least 15,000km, preferably 20,000km.

A lot of this has to do with new automated assembly techniques and materials, especially coated piston rings. If you don't allow the motor to run in properly, you can experience excessive oil consumption and poor performance.

OTOH back in the "good 'ole days" a very short initial oil change was beneficial. This still applies to new motors made the "old fashioned" way.

A coworker with a 1970 Chevy pickup put in a new GM 350 crate motor last year. The instructions are somewhat complicated, but here is what he was supposed to do, according to the Goodwrench site:

1. Always put safety first. If your car is on the ground, be sure the emergency brake is set, the wheels are chocked, and the transmission cannot fall into gear.

2. Engine shipped dry. Fill with 10W-40 non-synthetic SG motor oil. Be sure to check the engine's oil level and prime the oil system.

3. Run the engine between 2,000 and 2,500 RPMs, with no-load on the engine for the first 30 minutes.

4. Adjust the distributor timing roughly by hand for a quick start-up and the smoothest idle possible.

5. Adjust the carburetor settings, if necessary.

6. After the engine has been running for 30 minutes, set the ignition timing (see install ignition section for timing specifications).

7. Drive the vehicle with varying speeds and loads on the engine for the first 30 miles. Be sure not to use a lot of throttle or high RPMs.

8. Run five or six medium-throttle accelerations to about 5,000 RPMs (55 to 60 MPH), then let off in gear and coast back down to 20 MPH.

9. Run a couple hard-throttle accelerations up to about 5000 RPMs (55 to 60 MPH), then let off in gear and coast back down to 20 MPH.

10. Change the oil and filter with 10W40 SG oil and appropriate ACDelco oil filter.

11. Drive the next 500 miles normally, without high RPMs (below 5,000 RPM), hard use, or extended periods of high loading.

12. Change the oil and oil filter again.

They need you to run the motor with no load at 2,500 RPM for 30 minutes to properly break-in the camshaft and lifters. That stuff about accelerating and coasting is to properly seat the rings.

Again if you have any doubts, ask your service writer and Prius certified tech. Get them to put it in writing if possible. If questions still remain, call the Toyota assistance number.

 

The dino/synthetic topic has been discussed on several forums over the years. From what I have seen and read, if you intend to work your engine extremely hard in adverse temperature changes and extend your change interval to 3 times the recommended time, then you should use synthetic oil. If you intend to drive your Prius in a normal manner and change oil at recommended intervals then synthetic is a waste of money. I have seen studies that show some dino oils to perform just as good as synthetics. IMHO there is only one reason to justify the cost of synthetic oil in our cars and that is if it lets you sleep better. So far, that is the only proven advantage of synthetic in the Prius engine.

Doug

 

Before switching to Mobil1, I used to experience moisture collection in the dino oil that would slightly raise my oil level in the first week after an oil change. That phenomena has not happened with the Mobil1.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Venturer\";p=\"83865)</div>

Doug:

Even if you don't work the motor hard, in temps colder than -20 F, a synthetic offers many advantages over regular 5W-30. Most synthetic 5W-30 oils are good to at least -45 F, some to -50 F.

Synthetic 0W-30 oils are good below -60 F so they offer a good safety margin at -40. A regular 5W-30 turns solid at -25 to -30 F, and if it has any use it will turn solid much sooner.

I first started using synthetics for their cold temp performance advantages, I wasn't interested in dramatically extended oil changes or theoretical 1-3% fuel economy increases.

Folks around here who understood how to protect against rust have cars and trucks 25 years old in perfect running order. One little secret: in summer they ran a heavy duty diesel oil, either a straight SAE 30 or a 15W-40. In winter they ran a heavy duty 0W-30, which has been available for at least 3 decades for heavy duty truck motors.

One thing that good synthetics and heavy duty oils have in common: much higher detergent levels and TBN levels (12-15 vs 4-6 in regular oils) than conventional oils. In a light duty gasoline motor, they keep the motor spotless.

I would hesitate recommending a heavy duty diesel motor oil for use in any modern gasoline motor with fuel injection and emissions controls. The much higher levels of molybdenum and phosphorous can contaminate the O2 sensor and catalytic converter.

Jay

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ray Moore\";p=\"83867)</div>

Ray:

At temps colder than 0 F, you'll get condensation whether you run a synthetic or a regular refined 5W-30.

An important point to keep in mind is that the synthetic is highly resistant to breakdown from moisture contamination: the additive package stays intact. A regular refined oil will experience additive separation and the oil will quickly break down and form a nasty sludge.

That's why cars and trucks around here more than 4-6 years old are already burning oil. Their owners saved a nickle running some no-name "Starburst" approved 5W-30 and in winter it sludged up.

Jay

 

While I totally agree with all your comments, based on the extreme temperature conditions that I believe exist where you live, I'm not so sure they apply in the more moderate temperature conditions found in most of the lower 48.

Condensation certainly does take place as the engine cools down but the water is quickly evaporated as the engine returns to normal operating temperatures. If the engine was subject to short runs during which it never reached normal temperatures then I believe it would fall under the category of extreme operating conditions and require more frequent oil changes and/or synthetic oil.

IMHO, I still would maintain that a good grade of "SL" dino oil, changed at reasonable intervals, would perform an excellent job in the greatest majority of engines operated by Priuschat members.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(popoff\";p=\"83878)</div>

I agree.

Since the oil change interval in North America appears to be 1/2 that recommended in European Prius cars, most quality regularly-refined motor oils should work ok in moderate temps.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mtc1234\";p=\"83658)</div>

Don't change.

I stick with the factory recommended oil change interval until I feel that the engine is properly broken. How long would that interval be? Its impossible to tell. Every engine application is different so there is no good way a consumer can know what is best for them. 1,000 miles may have been enough in a normal non-hybrid vehicle that has its ICE always running to break in the cams but if you do the change to early you might prematurely wash away the cam lube. Maybe not. If you are worried about the filter clogging up with particles because the engine is brand new, I wouldn't worry about it as the factory would be facing a lot of premature failures and warraty claims. This is probably not a problem.

For my Prius I changed the oil at six months because I had only 2500 miles on it (part of our dedication to save of fossil fuel usage was to cut our annual mileage down drastically in addition to the Prius). Is now at the one year point (5,900 miles) and i am about to do the second oil change. I am just following the factory recommendations so that we won't regret unknowingly doing something radical to our Prius because this is a new technology that no one has long term experience with. I am sure that some engineer at Toyota had to think about these recommendations for a moment and came up with something reasonable.

So my two cents are to gop to 5,000 miles or six months, whichever comes first per the factory spec.

As for the side discussion on synthetics, all I can say is that I will be changing to synthetic oil at around 10,000 miles (i hope the engine is fully broken in by then). I will select an oil that is 100% PAO so that no dino oil is used in the process. You can mitigate the higher coast by extending the oil change interval accordingly (10,000 to 15,000 miles for most synthetics.) See an independent shop run theor own sythetic life study in the real world. Its entertaining if nothing else. http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories...s/oil-life.html

Other reasons for using sythetic are arguable, and have been argued in other threads of this forum, but some people claim an improvement in fuel economy (I have experienced this myself is using sythetics since the late 70's when I was in field service driving all over the East Coast), others state that ot offers better protection (arguable but plausable if the extreme condition or failure scenario hits you), and others state that high quality synthetics measurably reduce air pollution - I like that.

Why donlt the factorys put in sythetic to begin with? Its adds a cost to the car they are tryung to sell quickly. To maintain the benefit you have to keep using it and most people might not care enough to spend the extra bucks. Finally, they do use it in special circumstances when it looks like their target market is really into cars and will continue to use it. Examples I can think of off the top of my head are the Chevy Corvette which had some recent models ships with synthetic and all the Chrysler Shelby GLHS shipped with synthetic in the crankcase.

http://www.royalpurple.com/techa/whyrpa.html

"The most frequent comment from customers is how they can feel the difference in their vehicles after switching to Royal Purple. For instance, Royal Purple® Motor Oil typically improves horsepower and torque up to 3%. It also reduces fuel consumption by as much as 5% and typically reduces emissions 20% or more. Performance gains will vary depending on the type of vehicle, its condition, and the way it’s driven. Visit our test summary page for independent test results that document these performance gains"
http://www.royalpurple.com/techrp/summary.html

 

I'm taking delivery of my Tideland Perl (pkg c) in just over 2 weeks. I had planned on using synthetic oil because I like being able to drive longer between oil changes.

In an obsolete ICE I would go approx. 10,000 miles (the user manual said 7,000 for dinoil). If the user manual says 5,000 for the Prius -- what would be a safe synthoil range?

Thanks!

Mark (soon to fill in my profile) Bonney

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkInPontiac\";p=\"85737)</div>

Mark,

This new methodology of creating a hybrid drivetrain is so new for mass market vehicles that I think no one really has a definitive answer to your question.

What I came up with was to wait for the conversion to synthoil so the engine would be broken in. Here is the first problem. Since the ICE doesn't run all the time in the Prius, it doesn't experience as much wear (or break-in) in a given number of miles. The Prius ICE often has a gentler "cold" startup because of the thermos bottle providing wram coolant (when it can). For me, this stretched out the number of miles at which I felt the ICE was broken in.

For the oil change interval, I again recommend reading the adventures of a couple of guys in a garage testing the lifespan of various synthoils in a conventional ICE.

Enjoy,
Bob

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories...s/oil-life.html

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkInPontiac\";p=\"85737)</div>

Unless you wish to void your new car warranty, 5,000 miles.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkInPontiac\";p=\"85737)</div>

At what point do you plan to switch to synthetic? I'm sure you realize that you have to change the oil every 5,000 miles to maintain the warranty, no matter what kind of oil you use.

 

Hmmm, Lots to think about. There is quite a bit of information and opinion on this site. Very welcome indeed!

I need to review the manual and warrenty and talk to the service personnel (after I find out how much they've actually worked on the Prius).

I had assumed I'd go synth ASAP - but now I'll wait a bit and read a bit more.

Thanks everyone.

Mark

 

Good luck Mark. Glad to hear that you are enjoying the site, and as for the service personnel, my experience is that they will tow the company line and give you the company rhetoric with a straight face, so do lots of outside homework too.

Bob

 

Depends on the person you're talking to. Some of them may not have a personal opinion one way or the other and instead just tell you what the company told them; some will have their own opinion, probably based on some experience, and will usually be candid about it. Also depends how much the particular person cares about you the customer as opposed to you the person who pays for his paycheck, unfortunately.

"Money and virtue rarely fall on the same person." It's the reason we don't mind so much being so broke.

My husband insisted we go synthetic at 1000 mi, based on what he had seen in other new vehicles. Although let's face it, the Prius is still kind of a new thing, not all conventional theories apply to it, and the way to learn is still by experience here. That's what PriusChat is for.

Maybe it's better we switched right away, maybe it'll hurt us down the line in the form of a few mpg. Either way we'll know when we're up for a new one after 100K miles.

So this must be that whole 'first child syndrome' applied to cars. We'll know what we're doing with the next one. Good thing we don't have kids yet.... haha! :wink:

 

Actually its very unlikely that you hurt yourself in any significant way. As best as I can tell all you really did is to prolong the break-in period. It seems that modern material and tolerances (piston rings, cylinder walls, etc.) along with oil filter technology are so good that your engine will probably be around a very long time.

I have not switched to synthtic quickly because part of our commitment to the environment was to radically reduce the number of miles we drive annually. We have been so successful that I felt the need to use dino oil for a while so that the engine would get a chance to brek0in durung my lifetime.

Having originally come from the automotive field (and my family is still in it), I agree with you that you can find mechanics that will tell you how they feel about something, the problem is that its impossible to offer a usefull guideline in a public forum like this when everyone is spread all over the world. My experience (40+ years) has been that most mechanics lock on to one or two events that drive their opionion forever. It seems much better to go out and do a lot of research to get a more complete answer. This is particularly true when the subject is synthoil, you'll get mechanics that will swear that it will ruin the engine, leak through pores in the iron cylinder walls (I'm not kidding, I've had "senior mechanics" that should have known better try and tell me this) ad nauseum.

I like your money and virtue quote, it really applies here.