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Which LRR's have the least rolling resistance?

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Fuel Economy' started by Davsup, Nov 23, 2018.

  1. Davsup

    Davsup Junior Member

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    @ 50k, swapped out my Toyo OEM on my 2016 Prius 2 for the Bridgestone ECopia 422+. I am seeing a precipitous drop in MPG's.
    Granted I know the tires are new, but I am experiencing approximately 12% or more reduction in mpg's. I'm even experiencing the ICE turning on going down Large Hills on my way to work. ( overall the ICE is coming on more frequently than ever before and not coasting as freely with the Bridgestone tires)
    So my question is to everybody out there without any reference to temperature, braking, conditions etc. etc. :
    Which tires available in the U.S. have the lowest rolling resistance.
    Thanks,
    David
     
  2. krmcg

    krmcg Lowered Blizzard Pearl Beauty

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    Same tire pressure in the new tires as the old?
     
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    The weird thing is: Bridgestone Ecopia EP422 Plus IS one of the OEM tires. Except: it's a made in Japan version. There's also a version made in the US, and a third made in Mexico. There are variations in each tread pattern. The MIJ version is very distinct, quite a bit different pattern. The US and MEX versions are similar, but vary in number of rows. All three have different wear indexes. Maybe rolling resistance is different too??
     
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  4. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Unlike UTQG rating for tires, there is no industry standard for LRR that I know of. Company calls their tires LRR by injecting orange oil or green stuff or something else. Most of fuel efficiency claims they make are internal testing not verifiable by any standard testing. And if the same tires are used by two different people on same model of car, you are likely to have two distinctly different mpg results. I have used LRR tires on all of my three hybrid cars in the past and present. But for my next set of tires, I am going to disregard the LRR (or fuel efficiency) criteria for selection. I want most comfortable tire with decent handling and wet traction. I have dedicated snow, so winter traction can be ignored.

    When you do cost analysis comparing LRR vs non-LRR, the difference is so small at current gas price, it just is not worth it. Here is an example of what I found out by comparing various tires I was considering. Even if there was 8.3% loss of mpg from OEM tire (from 60mpg to 50mpg), at current price of $3/gal and annual mile of 15000 miles driven. The overall cost (tire cost + gas) per 1Kmile difference is less than $6.

    mpg tread analysis.png
     
    #4 Salamander_King, Nov 23, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
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  5. krmcg

    krmcg Lowered Blizzard Pearl Beauty

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    I noticed that Costco sells two different versions of this Bridgestone tire. All of the "comparisons" on their page are the same except one has a 1/32" deeper tread depth. I did not notice any country of origin on the Costco website. Same price...
     
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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    generally, you can't beat the oems, but a few have similar rolling resistance and other improved features.

    i like my michelin energy saver a/s. no change in mpg right from the get go. much quieter and smoother. but i don't know about tread wear, handling, snow/ice/rain and etc.
     
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  7. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    If you look at Tirerack you will find specs for two versions of Ecopia 422 Plus with distinct tread patterns (one 5 ribs, other 4 ribs), but according to the spec they have same tread depth of 11/32. I have had both of them on my Gen3 and HCH. Very good mpg, but treadwear was nowhere close to what they warrant them 70K/5yrs. I got less than 30K from one of them (I think made in Mexico one) and awfully noisy toward the end of service.

    https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Ecopia+EP422+Plus+%28H-+or+V-Speed+Rated%29&width=195%2F&ratio=65&diameter=15&cameFrom=selectSize&partnum=965HR5EP422PLV2

    Ecopia422p.png
     
    #7 Salamander_King, Nov 23, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
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  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Note the "5-rib" and "4-rib". As I recall, someone here even ended up with a couple each. Raised hell and the tire shop fixed it. Another Priuschatter, who got the 4 rib version, was a bit dismayed by the wide spaces, odd looking.

    Again, the MIJ version is really different: has more diagonal in the pattern, and smaller gaps.
     
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  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Different max pressures, wear index, what's not to like, lol.
     
  10. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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  11. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    It’s unfortunate the government doesn’t rate the things and plaster it alongside the weight and grip ratings
     
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  12. Davsup

    Davsup Junior Member

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    Yes, was the first item I checked.
     
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  13. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    How many tanks have you been through since changing?

    New tyres need running in as well, but 1000km I think they say they should be run-in.

    New tyres will have a very small rolling diameter difference (because they're not worn) - as may different brands. Is the speedometer reading the same against your SatNav? But I'd be surprised if it's 12% difference.
     
  14. Davsup

    Davsup Junior Member

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    I've put on about 500 miles so far. Overall the characteristics of the car running is not the same. Noticed more 'drag' when coasting, ICE comes on at various speeds that normally would regen or run off battery. All are subtle nuances, but over a few miles MPG's are taking a hit..
    I bought the car new & has just under 50K miles. I would expect some degradation of MPG, just not this drastic.
    I bought the Ecopias 422 pus at BJs & have spoken to the manager. Great customer service, no problem swapping out the tires. Unfortunately BJs does not have Michelin Energy savers A/S in my size. They have the TOYO Versado ECO's which may have been my OEMs?
    All opinions accepted.
    Thanks,
    David
     
  15. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

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    Years ago when the Gen 2 was the new Prius Consumers Report tested about five low RR tires and the one that won was the tire that came stock on my Prius the Goodyear Integrity. They gave great gas mileage but didn't wear well and terrible traction. The Traction Control light was always on it seemed. Gas mileage dropped when I put Michelin Energy Savers A/S and more withe the third set of no name tires.
     
  16. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    I wouldn't panic on one fill - I track all my fills, and have had some which were inexplicably low (or high) by up to 15% - I guess maybe often because you've used a different petrol pump and it's cut off much later or earlier.

    I'd wait till your next fill before you even think about it - if that 2nd fill is low, then look into it.
     
  17. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

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    The temperature chane is a big deal to gas mileage. All mechanical things in cold weather are affected, batteries are less efficient with weather change and tires don't roll as easy and who knows what changing to winter blend gas does to gas mileage.
     
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  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah all of that is pointing in the same direction.

    I'd speculate if you stay with them, it'll be equal parts:

    1. rolling resistance improvement with break-in.
    2. adaption, hypermiling harder.
    3. acceptance.

    Can't recall if I've mentioned: can your tire place get Bridgestone Ecopia EP20? That's one tire I found that gave very good rolling resistance from the get-go. They only come in 198/65R15, and they're a common OEM tire, were one used by Toyota on 3rd gen Prius with 15".
     
    #18 Mendel Leisk, Nov 25, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
  19. Davsup

    Davsup Junior Member

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    Yes, the EP20's are available.
    I may stick with the EP22's and grin and bear it. It's possible they just need to be broken in, however I'll believe it when I see it.
     
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  20. John Kuhn

    John Kuhn Member

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    I think this response nails it. I'll bet your mileage would be down almost the same amount even if you hadn't gotten new tires. My own mileage went down 10% or more since the fills prior to early November. Cold weather is a huge variable, and pretty much masks everything else except trip length.
     
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